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December 1, 2016

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVIII No. 52

The

House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Osborne):

Order, please!

Admit

strangers.

We would

like to welcome to the public galleries today Phyllis Weir from Petty Harbour

who's the subject of a Member's statement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

We also welcome to the

Speaker's gallery Bryan Walsh, who is the secretary of the Candlelighters

Association of Newfoundland and Labrador; his wife Trina; daughter Hannah; son

Nathan; son Daniel; and their grandmother, Donna Walsh.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Nathan Walsh is five years

old. On February 27, 2014, after turning three on Christmas Eve, Nathan's family

was told that Nathan had leukemia. Nathan is a brave, young boy who is living

with Down's syndrome and has battled cancer. I am so happy to say that in May of

2016, Nathan finished his chemo treatments and now visits the long-term,

follow-up clinic for regular checkups.

In June

of 2016, Nathan was the first child to ring the Bell of Hope at the Janeway as

part of the program launch. He has started Kindergarten and is really enjoying

attending school.

September, he and the Minister of Health had signed a proclamation for the

Yellow Ribbon Campaign. We've been asked by my good friend, the Speaker in New

Brunswick, to distribute gold ribbons here today as part of the Maggie Project,

which is what Nathan had signed the proclamation for; awareness of research

funding in Canada for children's cancer and the fact that only 3 per cent of

total funding raised goes towards research cancer.

We're

very proud to have Nathan in our Speaker's gallery and I'm going to invite a

Member from each of the caucuses to welcome Nathan as well because he is such a

brave, young man.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for

the opportunity to stand in the House today and welcome Nathan and his family to

the House. For the Members in the House who may not know, Nathan's dad, Bryan,

also works in the Office of the Chief Information Officer, and we're certainly

grateful for the incredible amount of volunteer hours that Bryan offers to the

Candlelighters Association.

It gives

me particular pleasure today to speak and welcome Nathan here, particularly in

the context of my own family's experience with childhood cancer. As Members of

this House would know, my sister was diagnosed when she was 12 and my dad was a

long-time volunteer with the Candlelighters. We were all too aware of the

challenges when it came to research funding for a child who had cancer.

Earlier

this year, the International Agency for Research on Cancer through the World

Health Organization as part of the International Childhood Cancer Day talked

about childhood cancer is often neglected because cancer is predominantly a

disease of aging populations. Data from cancer registries is indispensable in

bringing to light the full burden of childhood cancer and giving fresh clues to

the causes and for monitoring the impacts and effects to combat the problem.

Mr.

Speaker, on behalf of Nathan, and all the children in Newfoundland and Labrador

who are struggling with their families with cancer, I thank you for the

opportunity to speak and certainly support all initiatives to ensure that more

research money is driven into every area of childhood cancer that we can to hope

that these children have less of a fight than they've had over the last number

of years.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Certainly on this side of the House, we appreciate the commentary from the

Minister of Finance. We, as well, would like to welcome Nathan to this

Legislature today and recognition of him as a young man, youth, who has

experienced significant challenges in his life to date through cancer. But

through his perseverance and with the help of his family, he has moved through

this and is now starting, I understand, the next stage of his life into his

school.

We want

to congratulate him and support of his family in seeing him through this time.

As well, I want to recognize the Candelighters Association and the work they

have done. I've had some experience in the past in regard to some fundraising

efforts and know full-well the tremendous work they do in support for families

who experience difficulty going through cancer. I recognize the volunteers and

all of the work they do and the importance it is to our province.

Again, I

want to recognize Nathan for being here today. Good luck in your school studies,

and I'm sure you'll contribute to Newfoundland and Labrador in the years ahead.

Thank

you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

I'm

delighted to stand here today and to welcome Nathan. Hello Nathan, we're over

here. And to tell you what a lucky little boy you are to have such a loving

family here with you today, and lucky that they helped you get through that

dirty old cancer that you had to deal with. If you ever have to deal with it

again, I hope you won't, that they'll be there for you as well and will continue

to be with you.

I want

to recognize Nathan's family because I know it must have been a hard time for

you, but you can rejoice now in having such a lively little boy in your family

still. Thanking also, as my colleague from Ferryland has, recognizing the

Candlelighters Association because I know they give great support to families

and to those with cancer. I wish them all the best, keep up the good work, and

best wishes to all of you as a family for the future.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

Statements by

Members

MR. SPEAKER:

For Members' Statements today

we have the Member for the District of Conception Bay East Bell Island; the

District of Placentia West Bellevue; the District of Lewisporte Twillingate;

the District of Ferryland; the District of Torngat Mountains; and the District

of Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

The hon.

the Member for Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand

today to recognize an organization in my district which has offered services and

supports for youth for over 60 years. I speak of the Wabana Boys and Girls Club

on Bell Island.

Over the

past six decades, this organization has been a pillar in the community in

engaging, supporting, fostering, promoting and celebrating the accomplishments

of the community's youth. The hundreds of thousands of young people who have had

the privilege of calling a Boys and Girls club home in this country will attest

to the benefits they have gained.

The club

on Bell Island offers programs related to community leadership, academics,

personal and social development, career exploration, healthy living and every

aspect of physical activity. These programs are the foundation for fostering

well-rounded, engaged citizens in our community.

The

alumni of the Bell Island club includes successful doctors, engineers,

educators, health professionals, tradespersons, academics and all other sectors

of our society, including politicians.

I would

be remiss if I didn't acknowledge the work of the volunteers and the staff who

go beyond the call of duty to support the youth of Bell Island.

I ask

all Members to join me in congratulating and thanking all involved with the

Wabana Boys and Girls Club.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Placentia West Bellevue.

MR. BROWNE:

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to

recognize the Marystown Volunteer Fire Department, the Sacred Heart Family Aid

and the Salvation Army for their efforts in the 5th annual food drive, which was

held on Saturday, November 26, and was a tremendous success.

The food

drive collected some 36 crates of food, along with nearly $1,300 to help support

the people in need. Food drives are a great way to help support food banks and

to assist them in collecting food and monetary donations. It is especially

important at this time of year, given that the holiday season is often the

busiest time for food banks across the province. I encourage all Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians to give and donate to this worthwhile cause.

I want

to thank the firefighters, the junior firefighters, the local food bank

volunteers, and the RCMP members who were present at this event and helped

contribute to its amazing success. I also thank the community members who

donated from the Marystown and surrounding areas, as well as the management and

staff of No Frills, Walmart and Sobeys for their support.

I ask

all hon. Members to join with me in congratulating all those involved for their

efforts in this important cause and encourage those who can lend a helping hand

over this holiday season to do so.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Lewisporte Twillingate.

MR. D. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this

hon. House to recognize a company from my district that has served as a

cornerstone of the music industry in Newfoundland and Labrador since its

inception in 1996.

The

Citadel House is a performance venue and recording studio in the community of

Lewisporte. Founders Dean and Stevie Stairs purchased the former Salvations Army

Citadel and renovated it to serve as home and studio.

This

company has had a long history of producing high-quality music that has earned

numerous MusicNL, ECMA and CGMA awards. They have also offered mentorship and a

place to perform to many young musicians.

Earlier

this year, Dean Stairs was named MusicNL's Industry Professional of the Year.

The Citadel House won the Outstanding Business Award.

Newfoundland and Labrador is widely known for producing musicians of tremendous

talent. Local music publishers like Citadel House play a fundamental role in

nurturing emerging artists and furthering the careers of established artists

from our province.

I ask

all Members to his hon. House to join me in congratulating Dean and Stevie

Stairs of the Citadel House on its recent MusicNL awards and thanking the

company for its contribution to the music industry throughout our province.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Ferryland.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, I rise in the hon. House today to recognize the 65th anniversary of a

business in Petty Harbour.

Herbert

and Marguerite Weir opened Weir's Wholesale and Retail General Store in 1951.

The store was a typical outport store where fisherman and their families bought

groceries, dry goods and supplies. Customers would place their orders of

delivery, which Herbie and his daughters would deliver on Saturdays. The store

was a meeting place and community news was exchanged there over the counter.

Herbie

also provided a complementary trucking service where he transported salt cod and

cod liver oil to the fish plants in St. John's. On his return home, he would

bring food supplies, coal, salt and other items customers requested.

Herbie's

Olde Shoppe is located in Weir's General Store. The store was built in 1933 and

the interior is original to that of that time period. The old general store

ambience remains. The merchandise has changed from beans, sugar, flour and

fishing lines to quality crafts, woolens, books, jewelry and prints made by

Newfoundland and Labrador artisans and crafters.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask all Members of this House to join in congratulating Herbie's Olde

Shoppe in Weir's General Store on their 65th anniversary.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for Torngat

Mountains.

MR. EDMUNDS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise

today to recognize Nunatsiavut Day and 11 years of self-government for Inuit in

Labrador.

This day

marks the end of over 30 years of negotiations and hard work on the part of a

lot of people. People like Sam Andersen, the first president of LIA, my father

Bill Edmunds, Fran Williams, William Andersen III, William Barbour, Sarah Leo

and Johannes Lampe, just to name a few. We honour all those that have worked

hard to preserve and maintain our way of life, our culture, our language, while

working to create a better tomorrow for future generations.

As with

any government there have been challenges, but as a people we have the capacity

to face these challenges. I want to recognize the contributions of all those

that have steered us to the point of where we are now, and to thank those who

are working hard today in addressing the many social and economic needs of our

people and our communities.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask all hon. Members to join me in reflecting on the accomplishments

of the Nunatsiavut Government as we celebrate 11 years of the new

chapter in our

history.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for

Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS. DEMPSTER:

Thank you.

I rise

today to recognize Tyler Mugford, a 17-year-old from Cartwright who was selected

to participate in the Youth Ambassadors of Canada program earlier this year.

The

highly selective Youth Ambassadors Program involves a three-week exchange for 16

students from across Canada to the United States. It focuses on civic education,

community service, youth leadership and social inclusion.

Tyler

underwent a rigorous application process and was the first Labradorian chosen to

participate in the program. Program board members were looking for applicants

who were mature, energetic and ready to advance their skills to be leaders in

their schools and communities.

Tyler

has all these qualities in abundance. He is an avid community volunteer and an

honours student. He assists his church group, volunteers on the recreation

committee and helps out at school whenever needed. He is also a member of the

Canadian Junior Rangers.

Tyler

participated in the exchange from July 18 to August 7, and describes it as an

absolutely amazing experience. He is now working on a follow-up community

recreation project.

I ask

all Members of this House to join me in honouring Tyler Mugford, a young leader

and a true ambassador for Labrador.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

Prior to

going to Statements by Ministers, I want to bring to the attention of all

Members, a table and a chair down just opposite where the Sergeant-at-Arms sits.

I thank

the Member for Conception Bay East Bell Island who has worked with me to

recover these from the Lighthouse Caf on Bell Island. The sign at the

Lighthouse Caf says that these chairs were used by Members of the Legislature

at the Colonial Building. They were gifted to the Murray's Pond Country Club

prior to being gifted by them to the Lighthouse Caf.

It's

believed they were chairs used by Members of the Legislature. I can't

authenticate that. I'll leave that to the folks at The Rooms to determine

whether in fact they were. But, if in fact that chair was used by Members of

Legislature at the Colonial Building, it's the first time it sat in the

Legislature of Newfoundland and Labrador since 1960 or '61.

I sat in

it in the Legislature earlier today. I invite all Members to take a turn,

because it has probably been sat in by some very significant historical figures

over the years. It was a pleasure for me to be the first to sit in it since it

has come back to the Legislature, if in fact it did come from the Legislature at

the Colonial Building.

We can

confirm that it did come from the Colonial Building. It's certainly my hope that

it was one of the chairs at the Legislature.

I thank

again the Member for Conception Bay East Bell Island for

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

helping us to retrieve the

chair. It's the second of these tables. We did receive one of an exact table to

this earlier this summer, also believed to have come from the Colonial Building,

and that's now with The Rooms. So I invite Members again to take their turn in

the chair.

AN HON. MEMBER:

(Inaudible.)

MR. SPEAKER:

Now, now!

Statements by Ministers.

Statements by

Ministers

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today,

it gives me great pleasure to offer my own congratulations and that of all

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to the Labrador Inuit as they celebrate

Nunatsiavut Day.

On this

day 11 years ago, Labrador Inuit marked a new era and changed the face of

Newfoundland and Labrador forever giving the Labrador Inuit more control over

their own affairs. The Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement set out a new regime

for land ownership, resource sharing and self-government including Inuit

ownership of some-15,800 square kilometres of land referred to as Labrador Inuit

Lands and the creation also of the 9,600 square kilometres of Torngat Mountains

National Park Reserve.

As the

Minister of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs, it pleases me to recognize this

very important date in the province's history. It is important that we remember

that for over 30 years the Labrador Inuit negotiated their land claims agreement

which provided for the new self-government regime the first modern,

comprehensive land claims and self-government agreement.

The

Nunatsiavut Government has made great progress in improving the lives of

Labrador Inuit and all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians should be proud of what

has been accomplished by the Nunatsiavut Government.

The

Government of Newfoundland and Labrador looks forward to continuing to work with

the Nunatsiavut Government to help advance issues of importance to Labrador

Inuit, and I am optimistic that our governments, working together, can make

great progress on matters of mutual interest.

Thank

you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank

the Premier for an advance copy of his statement. The Opposition joins with

government in congratulating the Labrador Inuit as they celebrate Nunatsiavut

Day. I'm proud that our former administration initiated the historic Labrador

Inuit Land Claims Agreement. Working hand in hand with our Inuit partners, we

created an agreement that was heralded as groundbreaking and progressive. We

actually became a model for other jurisdictions to follow. Let's ensure we build

upon our past successes with a collaborative and respectful approach.

Congratulations on the 11th anniversary of Nunatsiavut Day. We wish you all the

best.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

I, too,

thank the Premier for the advance copy of his statement. I'm delighted to join

in congratulating the Nunatsiavut Government. It's so hard to believe it has

been 11 years. I also congratulate all the people who worked so hard for so long

to win their right to self-government.

I urge

the Premier that he keep his promise to work together with the Nunatsiavut on

issues of importance to the Labrador Inuit and not only deal with them at the

last minute in a crisis, as we recently saw regarding protests at the Muskrat

Falls Project worksite.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Further statements by

ministers?

The hon.

the Minister Responsible for the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this

hon. House to recognize that Saturday, December 3, is the International Day of

Persons with Disabilities. On this day annually, we celebrate the achievements

and contributions of individuals with disabilities.

Our

government continues to work with the community of persons with disabilities and

all residents to move forward on our commitment to promote a more inclusive

province.

We are

working toward reviewing existing legislation and toward implementing

inclusion-based legislation for our province. I hope every resident of the

province will consider contributing to the conversation as we develop a made in

Newfoundland and Labrador legislation.

Early in

the new year, we will also be introducing new policies and guidelines to ensure

departments communicate in a more accessible and inclusive manner. It is

important for government to continue to identify opportunities to ensure that

government policies reflect the needs of residents.

December 3 and throughout the year, let us recognize the importance of ensuring

that citizens with disabilities have the same choices, opportunities and access

as other citizens and the same rights to dignity, fairness and respect.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank

the minister for an advance copy of her statement. We, too, recognize December 3

as the International Day of Persons with Disabilities. Individuals with

disabilities deserve to have barriers eliminated and to live in an inclusive

society. The advancements made with respect to persons with disabilities have

been great during the past decade, but we still have so much more work to be

done.

Some of

the main barriers that persons with disabilities are faced with include

and inclusive education. I commend the minister and all individuals who continue

to succeed and move forward, despite their challenges.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The new

legislation can't come fast enough; it is long overdue. Already, legislation has

come before this House, like the Independent Appointments Commission bill, or

the latest procurement bill, where government did not take the opportunity to

include a disability clause.

Legislation with proper inclusion measures clearly outlined are much needed in

this province. I congratulate the advocates in the disability community who are

pushing for change.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural Development.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Mr. Speaker, generating

approximately $1 billion in visitor spending each year, the tourism industry is

a pillar for our province's growth, and is a key contributor for strengthening

our economy. I am pleased to advise this hon. House that tourism numbers based

on all major travel indicators have increased this season.

Newfoundland and Labrador is known around the world for its scenic coastlines,

traditional culture and friendly hospitality, and it is easy to understand why

so many travellers want to come here.

Our

award-winning Find Yourself tourism marketing campaign, which is one of the

most recognizable and successful campaigns in the country, continues to deliver

results. Mr. Speaker, I am proud to announce that just last evening our Paint

the Town contest, launched in May, received the Tourism Industry Association of

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. MITCHELMORE:

We are continuing to develop

tourism products and experiences so that visitors want to stay longer, resulting

in increased visitor spending.

Based on

the numbers, our efforts are working. Up to the end of October this year, Marine

Atlantic reported a 5 per cent increase in the number of non-resident automobile

visitors travelling to our province; more than 2.1 million people travelled by

air, representing an almost 4 per cent increase over the same period last year;

visits to our provincial museums are up almost 34 per cent; our provincial

historic site visits grew by 16 per cent; over 130,000 travellers visited our

information centres, an increase of almost 9 per cent; there were 2.1 million

visits to our official tourism website, an increase of 17 per cent; and finally,

referrals to tourism operator business listings are up 21 per cent.

Mr.

Speaker, I look forward to the continued energy, growth and optimism in our

tourism industry. I applaud all those involved especially our operators,

partners, the tourism board and Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador for their

ongoing hard work and commitment to making tourism in our province such a

success as we strive to increase visitor spending to $1.6 billion annually by

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank

the minister for the advance copy of his statement this afternoon. It's great to

see tens of millions of dollars of investment over the past decade continuing to

pay off for our province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Tourism is, without a doubt,

one of the greatest sources of economic success in our province. I'm pleased to

hear the minister state that the numbers have increased with respect to tourism.

And I, too, commend Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador, other industry

partners and all the hard-working individuals who work and do business in the

sector.

Mr.

Speaker, the irony of this Ministerial Statement is that the minister has

absolutely no issue with taking full credit for advancements and increases that

were made by the former government. This year, we've seen a doubling of the gas

tax, further increases to Marine Atlantic fees, taxes and fees placed on small

businesses in the tourism sector and all of these Liberal initiatives are

barriers to further industry growth.

The real

cause for celebration today, Mr. Speaker, should be that tourism numbers

increased, despite the actions of the Liberal government. Let's hope for growth

again next year.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank

the minister for the advance copy of his statement. Mr. Speaker, great news on

the Find Yourself tourism campaign award. Now if only the minister could find

himself on the award-winning East Coast Trail and commit to sustainable funding

to ensure ongoing trail development and maintenance.

Industry

has been requesting for years adequate support to important tourism sector

job-building initiatives already underway in the province. Our provincial

museums and historical sites themselves are desperate for adequate funding.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Further statements by

ministers?

Oral

Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, in the 2015 fall fiscal update the Finance Minister advised they would

reduce the use of consultants.

I ask

her: How much has government spent on consultants in your first year in

government?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I certainly

welcome the opportunity from the Member opposite to speak to some of the changes

that we've been able to make in how government looks at spending for

consultants.

One of

the first things that we did was to make sure that there was a Treasury Board

director that went out to all departments, agencies, boards and commissions,

providing them with direction on how Treasury Board would be handling the review

of consultant spending. As to the exact dollar amount of where we are with

consultant services, certainly that information is something that I can ask

officials to pull together for the Member opposite.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank

the minister; I look forward to those numbers.

Government has spent $141,000, as of August 29, on McInnes Cooper with respect

to public sector negotiations.

Can the

minister provide an update on the total amount spent to date?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I can provide

the Member opposite with information on what we're doing on collective

bargaining. I can certainly provide him information on the resources that we're

using.

External

advisors are something that many provinces use. This year we made the decision

which had never been used by the former administration, I believe to provide

some additional oversight to the process.

It's

important for us as an employer to make sure that we do the things that are

correct as part of the collective bargaining process. It's also important for us

that we do them not only correctly for our employees, through their union

contracts and union leadership, but also the things that we need to do correctly

for the taxpayers, the people of the province, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So I'll

ask the minister: Have additional expenditures been paid to McInnes Cooper since

August?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I thank the

Member opposite for the question.

I don't

have the information with me today as to the billing for McInnes Cooper. We

spend somewhere in the vicinity I think when the procurement bill was debated

of almost 50 per cent of our $8.4 billion on a variety of consultants, a

variety of services and a variety of things.

The

Member opposite certainly has expectations that as a minister, each of us I

think the Members opposite have expectations of all of us to know details. I can

certainly provide him the information when I have it. At this point, I don't

have the information as of today. But I can reiterate for the Member opposite

that we are significantly less resourced, from a public sector support

perspective, and using the services outside are certainly something we think is

prudent.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

So, Mr. Speaker, if I'm not

mistaken, the minister is responsible for labour negotiations. This is a

consulting contract that's tied to labour negotiations, so I would assume she'd

understand what is the expenditure on labour negotiations.

So is

she indicating there have been no expenditures since August on this consultant

with regard to labour negotiations?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, just to be

clear, what I'm indicating is that government spends almost 55 cents out of

every dollar that we spend is spent on services and programs. And the Member

opposite is asking for a specific contractor. The contracting services would

have been approved by Treasury Board earlier this year.

Where

the status is of those invoices and where the exact billing is, Mr. Speaker, it

would be disingenuous of me to attempt to answer that without having the exact

information from the department. That information is something that I do not

have today, but I can assure the Member opposite, and make no mistake, that as

an employer and also as representatives of the taxpayers, we will go through

collective bargaining with the best interests of the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador at our forefront.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

All I

was asking is the number but, as well, are there expenditures being incurred

right now by McInnis Copper. So neither one of those the minister could answer.

The

Finance Minister as well has not been able to provide details on the 450

full-time equivalents that I asked about the first day this Legislature opened,

the positions cut in government and in agencies, boards and commissions

identified in Budget 2016.

I ask

the minister: Can she tell us today how many people have been terminated since

you took office, and have all layoffs been completed for this fiscal year?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I want to

correct the Member opposite, with his permission. He asked me in the question

before around were there any ongoing expenses related to a contractor that's

providing ongoing service. I don't have the exact number for the Member opposite

today, but undoubtedly there is ongoing work. We are in active negotiations with

our important public sector unions. You can expect there would be ongoing costs.

When it

comes to the second question with regard to the implications of this year's

budget on the human resource head counts and the position counts throughout

government, as well as the agencies, boards and commissions, I'll let the Member

opposite know that from a government perspective, I can provide that information

when he does a follow-up question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Provide the numbers if you

could, please.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Absolutely, if the Member

would give me a moment to check the binder here, I have the exact number for the

core government.

As he

would know, very clearly, government is also responsible for communicating in a

budget the impacts and we did on agencies, boards and commissions. We have a

significant number of agencies, boards and commissions that are responsible for

the implementation of their salary budgets. And certainly the information

related to whether every single position has been acted on is information that

would be in the agencies, boards and commissions. That information I do not have

today, Sir.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Can the

Minister of Natural Resources provide me with an update on the progress of

Vale's underground mine project at Voisey's Bay?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

MS. COADY:

Thank you very much.

We're

very pleased to have Vale as a partner in our mining sector. They've done

incredible work in the province and continue to do that.

I will

say, the work that's being done in the smelter is coming to fruition this year,

as we know. Vale now has sanctioned the project to go underground mining in

their mine in Labrador.

They are

progressing through. They are working now to really get their engineering and

making sure what they're doing is appropriate. They have been in discussions

with employees. They've been in discussions with contractors and making some

good progress. They really want to focus on making sure they have their full

plan in place as they move forward.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Mr. Speaker, we have heard

there may be some issues in regard to layoffs in the underground mine.

Are you

familiar with any of this or advised of any changes?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

MS. COADY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As we

all know, it has been sanctioned to go underground. Vale has been focusing on

making sure that in tandem with progressing with the mine they have their

engineering complete, so that when they go to market to ensure that they have

the most finalized version of their requirements so that they can get the best

price possible.

understand through Vale that may take a little bit of a time lag. That they

would be looking at perhaps a few months before they have that synced to make

sure they have their engineering with their procurement to get their best price

possible, but they are progressing with the mine.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Just to be clear, is there a

change in the timeline in regard to getting the underground mine up and

operational?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Minister of Natural

Resources.

MS. COADY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Vale has

advised us that it may be a few months' delay because they want to make sure

they have their engineering finalized as they go out to the market for

procurement. So they are trying to collapse that time as quickly as possible as

commodity prices hopefully rise, but they are collapsing that time frame. They

really want to make sure they have their engineering and their procurement

aligned so they can get the best price possible, but they are committed to going

underground.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

I'll thank the minister for

that in regard to she submitted here there will be an adjustment in the

timeline.

I'm just

wondering: When were you going to let the people of the province know in regard

to that project?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

MS. COADY:

Mr. Speaker, things are

progressing. There might be some timing delay, but things are progressing.

Vale has

indicated they're going to progress with their underground mine. It has been

sanctioned. They are moving forward. They are making arrangements now to go

underground. They are just making sure that they have their engineering aligned

with their procurement requirements.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The

Minister of Education's former running mate, who was hand-picked to oversee the

school board elections, quit months before the election ever happened. The

minister, when asked last week, how much his political colleague was paid, would

not answer, but through an access to information we learned he was paid nearly

$11,000 for 39 days of work.

Does the

minister think this is reasonable for an incomplete job?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, we're very

pleased that we've had the school board election that the previous

administration denied the people of Newfoundland and Labrador for so long. It's

good to see that we have elected trustees. They had their AGM last week and

elected their executive last weekend.

The

person who the Member is referring to was hired in accordance with the

regulations under the public service, worked for a short time in the department,

did a very good job, found a better opportunity and I wish him the best of luck.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

So we had major confusion

around the elections. We had a dismal turnout and we had a lost ballot box.

That's the note success.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. BRAZIL:

The only success here is we

have good, committed trustees who are willing to put the education system back

on track.

How did

your appointed election coordinator manage to accumulate almost $1,200 in paid

leave when he only worked 39 days?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, from what I

understand, the DROs and the returning officers who oversaw this election did

quite a good job and I commend them for their good work.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KIRBY:

I don't know why the Member

seems to want to impugn that in here. I think they did an excellent job.

As I

said last week when I corrected the Member, I'll correct him again; no ballot

box ever went missing. It was an issue with a fax to email problem. It was a

technical issue that was an innocent problem that has been rectified and the

person who won that election has taken their seat.

I know

the Member continues to be upset. He was beating his chest over there last week

about this. He's upset that we gave the people of Newfoundland and Labrador back

their right to elect their own trustees rather than have them hand-picked by the

previous administration, and I stand by the decisions that we made.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Mr. Speaker, I do beat my

chest sometimes, that's for making sure we impress on the people in this

government here that they improve the education system not take away from it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. BRAZIL:

After the elections

coordinator quit, who completed the work and at what cost?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

As I said, Mr. Speaker, the

election was very well organized. The turnout was higher than the election that

happened concurrent with the municipal election that was held while the previous

administration was in power. There were six coordinators who were hired. They

all did quite a good job, and I believe all of the DROs and returning officers

did their work as well. All of the results have now been verified.

We've

had legal counsel look over it all. There was a recount that was done in

response to a concern in Zone 12. We're happy that we've returned the democratic

governance of public schooling in Newfoundland and Labrador to the people of the

province. That right was taken away by the previous administration and we have

returned it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

I ask the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development: Since taking office last year, what

actions have you and your department taken to address the mental health crisis

in Labrador with children and youth?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, as the Minister

of Children, Seniors and Social Development, I'm responsible for child

protection in Labrador. And the children within child protection that need

supports and services through mental health, receive that such service.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

I ask the minister: Have you

instructed officials to put any additional resources on the ground in Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, this question

gives me the opportunity to stand in this House of Assembly as the present

Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development and offer my deepest

condolences to the family and friends who were involved in the most recent

incident in Labrador; that such incident, that tragic incident happened in 2013.

Labrador, Mr. Speaker, there are numerous recruitment and retention initiatives,

a dozen-plus. So yes, Mr. Speaker, there are additional recruitment and

retention initiatives in Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Over the last 12 months, what

Aboriginal groups and leaders have you met with to discuss challenges with

mental health and suicide incidents?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Again, Mr. Speaker, I will

say, as the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development, our department

is responsible for the protection of children in Newfoundland and Labrador. In

Labrador I have met with Innu leaders from Sheshatshiu, Inuit leaders. We have

sat down, we have discussed situations and incidents pertaining to children in

care in Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

How many of the total

children and youth in care are from Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Today, Mr. Speaker, 32 per

cent, approximately 310 children.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Can the minister tell us if

the number of children in care is growing?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, over the last

couple of years, in actual fact, the number of children in care has increased.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

During the last 12 months,

have you initiated any new programs or services to help vulnerable children?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, during the last

12 months we have initiated yes, we have initiated additional programs. We are

piloting some programs right now. As I said earlier, there are 12-plus

initiatives focused on Labrador for retention and recruitment.

We are

working to ensure that all children in this province are our social workers go

to work every day, Mr. Speaker, to ensure that children's safety is paramount in

this province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for Fortune

Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Does the department currently

have children, youth and family services liaison positions within the Innu and

Inuit communities?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Yes, Mr. Speaker, we do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Perhaps the minister, when

she answers this next question, can elaborate on how many positions they have in

place.

As well,

we would like to know: What is the current client-to-social worker ratio in the

province's two Innu communities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The hon.

the Minister of Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, just last week

the hon. Member asked for a number of stats. All those stats are on our website,

almost three pages of them in fact.

Mr.

Speaker, the staff social work ratio to client in 2013 was 1 to 77. That was our

highest case in Labrador. Today it's 1 to 37. Today, we are working to ensure we

get it to one in 20.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for Fortune

Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Mr. Speaker, it's nice to see

the minister is trying to get herself brought up to speed on some of the

statistics in the department.

What is

the number of children and youth in out-of-province

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. PERRY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'll ask

the question again: What is the total number of children and youth in an

out-of-province placement?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, I truly cannot

give that number here in the House of Assembly. There are certain numbers we

cannot speak about, and that is one.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Perhaps she can get that

information for us, Mr. Speaker.

I would

like to know, Minister, with respect to out-of-province placements, how many of

them are Aboriginal? You can give us a percentage.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

The

Children and Youth Care and Protection Act

prevents me from identifying individual children for their own protection

and privacy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for Fortune

Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Again, Mr. Speaker, we're

looking for numbers, not names.

I ask

the minister: How do you believe the system will get better when you eliminated

the stand-alone department of child, youth and family services which was

dedicated solely to the task of protecting children and youth?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, I not only am

the Minister of the Department of Children, Seniors and Social Development, I am

a mother of two children and a mother of a child with a disability.

I can

assure you that bringing two departments together has not affected front-line

work in this department.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We've

heard from industry that the amount being offered to encourage personal care

home operators to take on enhanced care patients is simply not enough based on

the additional resources the homes would have to employ.

I ask

the minister: Do you believe the proposed amount is sufficient?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

The

amount that is offered for the enhanced personal care home project is based on

the results of the pilot scheme which worked very well, as the Member opposite

instituted in his tenure as Minister of Health.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

I thank the minister for the

answer, but I understand homes that were taking

part in the enhanced care pilot

received more money than what is now being offered.

Considering it costs upwards of $10,000 a month to care for a patient in

long-term care, would government be willing to increase the incentive to

personal care home operators to encourage more enhanced beds? The savings are

potentially huge.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The

department has a variety of strategies to reduce the demand on long-term care

which is essentially the origin, the genesis of the enhanced personal care home

project. This is one tool in our toolbox.

We have

added 100 beds to this project. In addition to this, we have a home is best

policy. In addition to this, we have looked at enhancing home supports to make

better use of the investment in money there. So this is not the sole strategy

aimed at reducing long-term care beds demand.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Increasing home care sounds

great, but that doesn't explain the massive cuts to home support that happened

in the budget earlier this year.

Today,

numerous personal care homes are caring for Level 3 patients and they receive no

additional compensation for doing so.

Will the

Minister of Health and Community Services address this and ensure that personal

care home operators are treated fairly?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Mr. Speaker, we are regularly

reviewing the issues that the Member alludes to. There is an active home support

review underway. This was completed, and now there is an implementation plan

with a 24-point phased suggestion. We have begun extensive consultations with

personal care homes, as well as stakeholders from the disability community, and

we expect to be able to roll this implementation plan out in line with

The Way Forward document over the next

six to 12 months.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

I ask the Minister of Health

and Community Services: Have the wait-list numbers for those waiting to access

long-term care in the province increased in the past 12 months?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

Again,

consistent with the detailed questions around numbers, I will be happy to check

and bring those figures back to the House. It is my impression that these

fluctuate both up and down, and there is also a geographical variation. For

example, the demand in the Central Region has tailed off compared with

historical figures, but I will get him a breakdown and bring those to the House

at a suitable moment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North for a very quick question.

MR. KENT:

I appreciate the minister's

response. Numbers in other regions of the province appear to be growing over the

past year.

What

specific action has been taken in the past year to address the growing demand

for long-term care in this province?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services for a quick response.

MR. HAGGIE:

Mr. Speaker, I referenced

several of them earlier. There's the home is best, there's the personal care

home enhanced care project and we are working through the home support program

review. All of these will aim to reduce demand for long-term care beds.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

The

Premier and the CEO of Nalcor reported over a month ago that it was urgent to

flood the Muskrat Falls reservoir in order to protect the integrity of the

infrastructure at the falls. Nalcor later released water from the reservoir to

deal with problems with the cofferdam.

I ask

the Premier for an update on this urgent matter. Have the repairs to the

cofferdam been completed, and when does he anticipate that Nalcor will start to

raise the water level in the reservoir?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

MS. COADY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The

Member opposite is correct; the cofferdam, which is a temporary structure, was

having some seepage. This is not unusual; not unusual at all to have some

seepage. Nalcor did lower the water to consider that seepage and make some

additional materials available around that cofferdam. They've also put in some

grouting. They're continuing to work on that cofferdam. They will raise the

water once they are sure that the cofferdam is to the level and requirements

that they have, and that will be done in the next, I am sure, very short time.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask

the Premier what impact might this lengthy delay in what we were told was

urgently needed flooding have on the integrity of this multi-billion-dollar

structure?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

MS. COADY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for

the question.

And as

I've said, the cofferdam temporary structure had some seepage and Nalcor is

working to mitigate those challenges.

There is

some concern around the length of time that we've had this fall around raising

that water level not the length of time, but the time of the year that it is.

We are concerned about the time of the year and making sure that we have ice

coverage and raising that water level, it would be important to ensure we the

ice coverage for the protection of assets.

Nalcor

is reviewing, with its engineers and they have SNC-Lavalin and Hatch available

to them with their geotechnical engineers to ensure that they do everything

possible to protect those assets as is required.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, Nalcor's major

development projects have significant environmental and social impacts on the

people of Labrador, yet the Premier has not appointed a single Member from

Labrador, nor from a Labrador Aboriginal community to the Nalcor board of

directors.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask the Premier, who is also the Minister of Labrador and Aboriginal

Affairs: How can he justify this glaring omission and what is he committed to do

about it?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This

government the appointments that have been made have been made through an IAC

process. So when the IAC process was established and the names came up, we

noticed as well that there was no one there that had the experience with

Labrador and Aboriginal affairs. That is the reason why we see a number of seats

that have been left vacant right now.

We said,

even at the release I'm not sure if the Member opposite would have the details

of that. But we made it very clear on that day that we noticed this gap, and

we've gone back to the IAC to make sure that there is someone from Labrador and

Aboriginal affairs to be available to sit at that seat, with that particular

skillset. It's important for us, Mr. Speaker.

Not like

the leader of the Third Party mentioned earlier, but we are having a tremendous

and quite often we are communicating with our Aboriginal leaders and people in

Labrador. I can say to the leader of the Third Party, Mr. Speaker, that it is

not the case what she articulated earlier in Question Period.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

But, Mr. Speaker, it's a

glaring omission; how he could not have rectified immediately is beyond me.

Mr.

Speaker, the Liberty Group identified lack of experience in big hydro projects

as a weakness of Nalcor from day one.

I ask

the Premier: Why does the new Nalcor board not include someone with major hydro

development experience other than the CEO?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well,

there's a tremendous amount of experience on the board that was recently put in

place this week, using an IAC process. I would like to, once again, reiterate

for the Member opposite that there will be someone from Labrador, and someone

who has an understanding of Aboriginal affairs will be on that board. That is

the reason why there are some seats that were left vacant.

When it

comes to the experience, there are a number of skill sets of people that have

been recently appointed to that board, Mr. Speaker. The CEO himself has some

experience around hydro developments, as well of many of the other members there

that would have significant construction experience, significant financing

experience that is complemented by the people that are already working on the

project.

This is

the best board that they've ever had in place with Nalcor.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

PREMIER BALL:

It was put there by an IAC

process, Mr. Speaker. These Newfoundlanders and Labradorians giving their time

to see this project through to the end.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The time for Question Period

has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling

of Documents.

Tabling of

Documents

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

accordance with

section 19(5)(

a) of the

House of Assembly Accountability, Integrity and Administration Act , I hereby

table the minutes of the House of Assembly Management Commission meeting held on

August 24, 2016.

Pursuant

section 43 of the Citizens'

Representative Act , I am pleased to table the Citizens' Representative

annual digest for 2015-2016.

Further

tabling of documents?

Notices

of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Service NL.

MR. JOYCE:

Mr. Speaker, I give notice

that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act Respecting Regulatory

Accountability And Reporting, Bill 54.

MR. SPEAKER:

Further notices of motion?

The hon.

the Minister of Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural Development.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Mr. Speaker, I give notice

that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act Respecting The Rooms

Corporation, Bill 56.

MR. SPEAKER:

Further notices of motion?

The hon.

the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I got

quite carried away.

Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act Respecting Secure Withdrawal Management For Young Persons, Bill 55.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Further notices of motion?

The hon.

the Government House Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Yes, Mr. Speaker, pursuant to

a request by the Chair on Tuesday, I would move:

BE IT

RESOLVED that the Public Accounts Committee of the 48th General Assembly is

authorized to consider and report upon evidence heard by the Public Accounts

Committee at hearings conducted during the fourth session of the 47th General

Assembly and related documentation.

MR. SPEAKER:

Further notices of motion?

The hon.

the Government House Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Further to that there has to

be a vote, Mr. Speaker. So I would ask leave from my colleagues if we can do so.

MR. SPEAKER:

All those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

Those against?

Carried.

Answers

to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the

hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland

and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

the government has not implemented curriculum to teach the basic monetary skills

needed by our youth; and

WHEREAS

the government of our province has the responsibility to act in the best

interests of our youth; and

WHEREAS

the youth of our province deserve the greatest level of respect and

consideration;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House

of Assembly to urge government to introduce financial education into provincial

curriculum to prepare youth for the monetary and financial challenges of life

upon entering the workforce.

And as

in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, this has been a growing issue for some time. There's been lots of

discussion that I've had with young people about our career development

education in our schools. It's clear that there is more practical education

around financial literacy needed in our schools, junior and high schools.

I met

with a group recently who's been trying to get a meeting with the Minister of

Education for months and has been unable to do so. The group is called Financial

Literacy for Youth or FLY financial. It was founded in January 2016.

The

purpose is to teach basic financial and money management skills to high school

youth through their career development class. They have been to three different

high schools as volunteers presenting to over 300 students so far. The team

consists of three Memorial University alumni. They present to schools in this

region, in the capital region, but they want to expand across the province and

it would cost very little for them to do so.

The lack

of financial literacy is causing many people in our province, young and old, to

be taken advantage of by credit card and lending companies. The lack of

awareness can have a large impact on people's financial futures.

Thirty-four per cent of Canadians say they hope to win the lottery in order to

finance their retirement. Young people are not being taught enough about debt or

savings, or financial management in general. Teaching young people about savings

and debt could help future generations.

Bankruptcies are increasing. We expect they will increase more in the coming

years based on what's happening with our government and with the economic

downturn. The current state of the economy really calls for increased awareness

of personal finances. Individuals can find themselves in trouble by acquiring

too much debt. This is happening to families in our province every day.

Lending

institutions make their money from charging interest. Albert Einstein once said:

Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. Those who understand it,

earn it. Those who don't, pay it.

We have

a group of people in our community that are looking to positively impact the

career development curriculum to teach youth valuable skills. Everyone will

eventually have to face personal financial decisions and we need to prepare

young people coming out of our high schools to be prepared for success in life.

There's

a real need here. There's a real opportunity. I urge the Minister of Education

to listen and to take action.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

Before I

recognize the Member for St. John's East Quidi Vidi, I'm more than delighted

to welcome the noise from our visitors but all other Members of the House, I ask

you to try to lower the volume.

The hon.

the Member for St. John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

To the

hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland

and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest percentage of the workforce earning

the provincial minimum wage in Canada,

with women, youth and those from rural areas making up a disproportionate number

of these workers;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House

of Assembly to urge government to legislate an immediate increase in the minimum

wage to restore the loss of purchasing power since 2010 and an annual adjustment

to the minimum wage beginning in 2016 to reflect the consumer price index.

And as

in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, I'm very happy to bring forward this petition today which is signed by

people from St. John's. Many people, who I know, themselves, are working on

minimum wage. They are not very happy with the fact that the Minister of

Advanced Education, Skills and Labour last week announced that the minimum wage

is going up in 2017, not 2016, which would put them back even further than when

they signed this petition last year.

The

minister seems not to have listened to the plea of people in this province.

People who have not had an increase since 2010, people who are so far behind now

that they will continue to be behind when they get a measly 25 cents raise in

April, 2017, and another one in the fall of 2017, Mr. Speaker.

The

people who had signed this petition understand they are going to be further

behind. When the minister made his announcement last week, he liked to point out

this will bring us up beyond being the lowest in Canada in comparison to the

other provinces. I'd like the minister to realize, they're not standing still.

Next year as ours goes up, way too late, the other provinces will also be going

up.

probably will still be the lowest in all of Canada, Mr. Speaker. The people who

signed this petition know that. They are the ones who are going to food banks,

they are the ones who are not able to make ends meet, they are the ones who are

going to pay loan agencies. Something that we're going to be dealing with in the

House of Assembly today, actually, with regard to people who earn so little

sometimes in absolute desperation having to go to payday loan companies in order

to keep going on a daily basis from paycheque to paycheque. The minister does

not seem to be in touch at all with what people working on minimum wage are

going through.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Opposition House

Leader.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am

pleased to rise today in this hon. House to present a petition.

To the

hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland

and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

Budget 2015 announced a new school for

the Witless Bay-Mobile School System; and

WHEREAS

the planning and design of this school was completed; and

WHEREAS

the project was cancelled in Budget 2016 ;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House

of Assembly to urge government to reverse its decision and construct the

proposed school for the Witless Bay-Mobile School System.

And as

in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, this is relevant to my district, the District of Ferryland, and from

the area of Bay Bulls to Bauline. Over the past number of years we've seen

significant growth in the region with new subdivisions and homes being built and

people moving into the area. As well as people who grew up in the area building

new homes.

With

that ongoing, we've been able to build the necessary infrastructure in some

respects related to recreation with a new Lifestyle Centre in Bay Bulls. We've

done tremendous upgrades to the Southern Shore Arena. The facility in Bay Bulls

has a daycare centre. As well, with that we have a need for an upgrade in

educational facilities. We've built on to St. Bernard's in Witless Bay with

three new classrooms, put on two portable classrooms.

If you

will, the way forward had been and always was to get to a point where we'd build

that new school, an intermediate school, to take pressure off St. Bernard's and

to take pressure off Mobile Central High, and that was announced in 2015. For

some particular reason in this budget, it was cancelled outright. Now I continue

to hear from parents, community groups that are distraught in regard to the over

amount of kids that are in classrooms, the resources that are available.

Classrooms have been set up in the cafeteria. Music class being taken away

because kids can't get that exposure to the educational levels they require.

It's certainly not appropriate and we need to ensure that this infrastructure

gets started, gets built.

There

has been little details from the Department of Education of where they're going

and how they're going to handle what we're seeing in the district in regard to

new families and young children flowing into St. Bernard's, the doubling up of

classroom and sizes. This is detrimental to the region, to the families and to

the youth of this region. It's certainly not acceptable and there has been no

indication from the Department of Education, or this Liberal government, of why

this would be cancelled.

They've

gone forward with other infrastructure. They're always quick to jump up and talk

about all the infrastructure spending they're doing, but for whatever reason

this was cancelled. It's not appropriate, it's not good. It's not good for the

region and the families. It's all part of economic activity, which we've heard

very little from this government about, but if you're going to build economic

activity you need to build the infrastructure. It has been done for the past 10

years and it needs to continue.

implore this government to step up and fix this mistake they made, and ensure

this school gets started and gets started immediately.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the

hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland

and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

the government has cut vital funding to the Boys and Girls Club on Bell Island,

negatively impacting important programs and services;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House

of Assembly to urge government to reinstate previous funding in order to allow

this organization to carry on its positive work in the community.

And as

in duty bound, your petitioners will forever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, obviously this past week has been disheartening for a number of youth

organizations in Newfoundland and Labrador, but particularly for every citizen

here because they see the impact this is going to have on our society.

We all

realize the most vulnerable sector in society is our young people, but

particularly, when we have volunteer boards and organizations who are willing to

go out of their way to do whatever it takes to ensure that young people and our

children have services in their respective communities and are given an

opportunity to be better engaged, an opportunity to be functional, an

opportunity to have experiences, an opportunity to be themselves and be in a

safe environment, Mr. Speaker.

What's

happened this year and with this administration and this past budget is

devastating to these organizations, but it is devastating to our ability to

ensure that we get young people more engaged and produce what communities have

set out to do. Citizens who have an opportunity to be themselves and be the best

they can be.

These

organizations in the last number of days have been constantly reaching out to

all of us here in the Opposition side asking the questions as to why. We're

talking nickel-and-dime investment from a government point of view. There has to

be a better way for government to realize this investment not only does it save

you money, it generates money.

It has

already been proven. Economist will say the minimum of a four-to-one return on

every dollar invested in the sector around community engagement, particularly

young people, you get it back. In some cases it's 8, 10, 20 per cent. The issue

here is around the semantics around core funding. This is core funding because

these are organizations that for the last 30 years have filled out the same

application, filled in the same things they do, the same process.

The

project funding is money that they leverage from all kinds of other

organizations, other funding sources, the private sector, the partnerships they

develop, their own particular fundraising; that's where the project money goes

from. So we play it on an application process for administrative reasons.

Mr.

Speaker, I was there, so I know exactly what this means. I know what the

definition of core funding was and I know what the intent was and I know what

the expectation was from people. No doubt, the expectation from these

organizations and you've heard it; they have no vested interest, other than

improving the lives of young people. We're talking thousands of volunteers that

are engaged here. We're talking about millions of dollars that they leverage for

a small investment by government. In this case what government did was cut that.

Mr.

Speaker, I want to add this petition. I'll be doing that over the next period of

time to outline our outrage in the cuts to youth organizations in this province.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Orders of the Day.

MR. SPEAKER:

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I call Order 2,

third reading of Bill 50.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board that Bill 50,

An Act

To Amend The Vital Statistics Act, 2009 No. 2 be now read a third time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It is moved and seconded that

Bill 50 be now read a third time.

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

Those against?

Carried.

CLERK (Ms. Barnes):

A bill,

An Act To Amend

The Vital Statistics Act, 2009 No. 2. (Bill 50)

MR. SPEAKER:

Bill 50 has now been read a

third time and it is ordered that it do pass and its title be as on the Order

Paper.

motion, a bill,

An Act To Amend The Vital Statistics Act, 2009 No. 2, read a

third time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 50)

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Service NL, for leave to introduce a

bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Labour Standards Act No. 2, Bill 53, and I

further move that the said bill be now read the first time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It is moved and seconded by

the hon. the Government House Leader that Bill 53 be now read a first time.

Is it

the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

Those against?

Carried.

Motion,

the hon. the Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour to introduce a

bill,

An Act To Amend The Labour Standards Act No. 2, carried. (Bill 53)

CLERK:

A bill,

An Act To Amend The

Labour Standards Act No. 2. (Bill 53)

MR. SPEAKER:

Bill 53 has now been read a

first time.

When

shall the said bill be read a second time?

MR. A. PARSONS:

Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

Tomorrow.

motion, Bill 53 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I call Order 4,

second reading of Bill 52.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development, that Bill 52, An

Act To Amend The Consumer Protection And Business Practices Act, be now read the

second time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It has been moved and

seconded that Bill 52 be now read a second time.

Motion,

second reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Consumer Protection And Business

Practices Act. (Bill 52)

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm very

happy to stand here today and debate this very important piece of legislation

that has been quite a time in the making. This is something that has been in the

public's eye now for a number of years. This topic, when we talk about payday

legislation, we talk about making sure that we do everything we can to protect

the consumers' best interests.

In fact,

I can remember this topic being around when I first got elected and actually

having conversations with various Members to discuss this because at that time

and, again, being very new to this it was not something that I had any

experience with, that I had any dealings with. But I heard about it and I

remember doing what I could to look into it and discuss what seemed to be a very

good idea. Unfortunately, at that time, for whatever reasons and no one knows

why that never went forward, but I thought it was a good idea then and I

certainly think that it's a good idea now.

I'm

happy to stand here and speak to this piece of legislation. I want to speak to

my personal experience of just hearing about it and seeing how it progressed.

We've all dealt, I'm sure, with constituents who have found themselves in

situations where they're in desperate need and where they need to find ways to

provide, but they put themselves in situations where they can bring themselves

in perilous situations. In fact, maybe in certain situations, get them in

trouble. Now, we all know there are others who use this service and I'm sure

they make out just fine.

In many

cases this is what we do as legislators and policy-makers. We have to take steps

to protect the best interests of the people of this province. I think this piece

of legislation is one that does so.

Again, I

know the Minister of Service NL will be speaking to this. I also understand we

have various Members in fact, I think one of my colleagues will also be

speaking to his because it's something he's found quite interesting.

At this

time, I'll take my seat. I look forward to the debate on this important

legislation. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to it.

MADAM SPEAKER (Dempster):

The Speaker

recognizes the hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. JOYCE:

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I thank

the Member for Cape St. Francis for letting me usually we alternate back and

forth. I just had to step out for a second, so I thank the Member for Cape St.

Francis for allowing me to speak on the bill.

Madam

Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to open debate on amending the

Consumer Protection and Business Practices

Act . This legislation is long overdue and will finally put regulations in

place regarding payday lending in our province.

A payday

loan is a short-term loan for a small amount of money provided by a

non-traditional lender. The payday loan activity in this province is comprised

of store fronts and Internet operations.

In 2007,

the federal government amended the

Criminal Code of Canada to support provincial regulations of payday lenders

and it encouraged the provinces to develop their own regulations. While most

jurisdictions put regulations in place, the government of the day in the

province announced in June of 2010, it would leave the industry unregulated.

Payday

loans are being used by individuals who cannot avail of more traditional forms

of credit from banks or credit unions, and so leaving these consumers without

regulations is unacceptable. This legislation will allow our government to

require payday lenders to be licensed and will impose restrictions and

obligations on payday lenders to protect consumers.

This

proposed legislation delivers on our government's commitment to strengthen

consumer protection in our province. Madam Speaker, this legislation is not

intended to promote the use of payday loans but protect those who avail of it.

This

legislation will enable the provincial government to provide the following

protections for users of payday loans: we will limit the total cost of borrowing

for payday loans; we will require payday loan agreements to include specified

terms, information and disclosure statements; we will provide borrowers with

cancellation rights; we will make certain payday lenders practices prohibited by

regulation; we will provide borrowers with remedies when payday lenders do not

honour their obligations under this legislation.

This

legislation positions the province to set out regulations so that these

protections can be put in place. We will establish these regulations over the

year.

As an

example, this legislation allows government to set regulations regarding the

maximum cost of borrowing expressed as a specific dollar amount per $100

borrowed. In other jurisdictions, the amount of cost ranges from $15 to $25 per

$100 borrowed. Our government is promoting setting a maximum cost of $21. This

is in response to a 2009 Ernst & Young report that stated the average cost of

borrowing was $21.50.

believe this amount protects consumers and allows payday lenders to operate, but

we are open to input as we develop the final regulations. We will also establish

a licensing process to establish legitimate payday lenders and establish a

licensing fee. By putting these measures in place, we'll finally give consumers

in our province the kind of protection that is already enjoyed by residents in

other provinces.

When the

government of the day announced they would not regulate payday lenders in 2010,

that decision meant it chose to uphold the maximum interest set out by the

Criminal Code of Canada . Under the

Criminal Code of Canada the maximum a

lender can charge is 60 per cent interest on an annual basis, with interest

being defined as the total cost of borrowing, including fees and charges. When

the government of the day announced its decision it stated, and I quote: We do

not want individuals being gouged or putting themselves more in debt and having

a hard time catching up because of high interest rates for these types of

short-term loans.

It has

been proven that it's not possible to enforce the 60 per cent interest rule in

the Criminal Code on the payday loan lending organizations. This was confirmed a

few years ago when the Department of Justice filed a complaint and the law

enforcement related to breaches of the Criminal Code related to payday lending.

The investigations concluded in 2003 with no charges laid and it was determined

prosecution was not in the public interest.

Madam

Speaker, the reality is that payday lending is taking place throughout the

province. It requires regulations to protect consumers, and almost all other

jurisdictions in Canada have established regulations. We are responding to these

realities by developing legislation that reflects the best practices in Canada.

With this legislation, we will help protect people in our province who need to

avail of the services of payday lenders and are already using them.

Before I

conclude, Madam Speaker, I want to address the main argument that the former

government put forward to defend their decision not to regulate payday lending.

The former government argued it would not regulate payday loans because doing

nothing could result in consumers facing annual rates of nearly 550 per cent.

The argument is based on a false assumption.

Payday

loans are not taken out for a period of one year. Our maximum regulation

includes a recommendation for a maximum loan term of 62 days, arguing payday

loans have an annual interest rate of 550 per cent. To stay in a hotel that

offers $100 per night room has a total annual fee of $36,500 a year, per stay.

People don't use the service like that, so it's incorrect to discuss it in that

manner.

We know

payday loans are being used by individuals in our province, and having these

consumers without the protection of regulations is unacceptable. This

legislation will allow our government to require payday lenders to be licenced,

and will impose restrictions and obligations on payday lenders to protect

consumers.

This

legislation delivers on our government's commitment to strengthen consumer

protection in our province, and I am proud to bring it forward in this hon.

House.

Thank

you, Madam Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER:

The Speaker recognizes the

hon. Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Thank you very much, Madam

Speaker.

It's a

privilege to get up here again today and talk on Bill 52, which is a very

important piece of legislation. It's very important. It's a part of society and

part of what we should be regulating. It's a part of what, I guess, the consumer

sometimes out there today we want to make sure they're protected in the best

way possible.

If you

look at payday loans, a lot of people have used the loan system. It's a great

service, but it's also a service that sometimes people can get into and get in

over their heads.

I have

some questions for the minister like I did when I was in the briefing about

it later on. What that's going to entail is like when people do get to the

bankruptcy stage and stuff like this. So I have some questions for him, and that

I will be asking.

This

piece of legislation, what it's basically doing is it's going to limit the total

amount of cost of borrowing through payday loans. Again, this is another bill

that we kind of look at and say it can be great but the devil is really going to

be in the regulations on this one also because we don't know what the

regulations are going to be. We're just assuming through the briefings and

everything else. The regulations are still yet to come on this bill. So it's

going to be important what the regulations basically are.

One of

the things they're looking at doing is the possibility of having a total cost

the total amount that you can go and borrow will be $1,500. That's good that

there is a limit on how much you can borrow, but when I asked a question when we

were doing the briefing sometimes what happens when people get into small

loans like this, they borrow to pay off the loan. I was hoping there would be

some kind of regulation in that, that we don't put people in that position

again. Because if you look at the interest rate, it will just continue to

accumulate as it goes on.

The

other thing about this also, it will have specific terms and it will give you

information. Every bit of information that you need for that loan because

sometimes you can just go into these counters and have your paystub or whatever

you got there, and they'll give you the loan.

Right

now, there's going to be another regulation that hopefully, it'll give you the

terms of what the loan is about. It will give you the information of the loan.

It will show you how much money if you pay it off in this period of time, how

much money, and that's important to people because sometimes people are in dire

straits. They just need that money right away. I need to get it. I'll pay

anything for it, but I need that money today. That's what happens in a lot of

cases.

There

are some cases where payday loans, people use them and they're great for the

person, because if something comes up that you don't have the money right away

for and you need that money, obviously, this is a good way to do it. I'm not

saying that all payday loans are negative but in some cases people are really

desperate. At that time it's good to let them know what they're really getting

into. That's a good part, but it's part of the regulations that we all thought

out.

Also,

part of the regulations will be is that sometimes when people go to payday loans

and stuff like that, and you go home and it could be your wife, it could be your

husband, whatever, it could be a family member, there's a part of the regulation

coming in that will be able to give you one day. So if you go in and you get a

loan through a payday loan lender and you go home that evening and you realize,

wow, what am I after getting myself into, or there could be a family member or

it could be somebody else who will come along and say, listen, why are you doing

this?

Part of

the new regulations coming in here also will allow cancellation rights, it's

called. Under cancellation rights, it will give you up to 24 hours to cancel. So

you can go back the next day and say yesterday the circumstance was this, last

night we discussed it and this is what happened. Sometimes when people use

payday loans or whatever it is, it's a very rushed thing. You can't go to the

bank, to wait to get the paperwork done, or you can't do this. So it's an

important piece of legislation and a regulation, hopefully, that's going to be

brought in that you can do this.

That's

what's done in other provinces, by the way. It gives you the right to be able to

cancel it within the one day. Sometimes, I'm sure, in the past this was a huge

problem, especially for people coming home and saying I have the money now to do

this or whatever. So this gives you a way out if there's another avenue which is

pretty good too. I have to say that's a great piece. Most of the certain stuff

that lenders will practise; all of this will be in the regulations when it comes

down afterwards when most of the regulations are done.

The

minister also mentioned that this is done in most provinces. I think the only

province that it's not done in passed similar legislation may be Quebec. I

think Quebec has different legislation than other provinces. New Brunswick

brought in this same legislation but they haven't proclaimed it yet. That was

over a year ago since then. So that's another question I'll have down the road

for the minister because people are looking for this kind of legislation.

The

legislation doesn't only apply to stores that you can go into, it's also for

online. Today, we all know how online works; you can write a cheque to somebody,

take a picture of it and they got it. I don't do it. I don't know how to do it,

to tell you the truth, but I know people do it all the time. It's a part of who

we are today with online. Everything you can do today is online, so these

regulations will also be brought in for the online users that do this also.

The

interesting part about this piece of legislation, Madam Speaker, is that this is

provincial. The federal government doesn't regulate it so the provinces are on

their own to make sure that the industry this type of industry is only done by

the provinces. Regulations and legislation has to come in through the provincial

government.

Madam

Speaker, if you look at the legislation itself, there are some really good

things in it. The

part I mentioned earlier is to give people information. It's

so important because I know in anything that you do, sometimes people have

second thoughts. When you read something in front of you and you say, oh my God,

okay, I'm going to borrow $500 but it's going to cost me this much money down

the road because sometimes you have to realize so it's so important that all

this is done.

This is

part of what this bill is doing, is making sure that people have to sign off. So

when you go in and get this loan, all the paperwork will be in front of you and

you'll be told, okay, this is what it's going to cost, this is the amount of

money that you're borrowing, and 62 days is the length of the term. So the

longest that this can go out for is 62 days.

That's

the part probably that I like the most about the bill because sometimes as we

know people get into you can have a Visa card and somebody pays off the

minimum payment of a Visa card; you can be years because all you're doing is

paying off that interest and it keeps on accumulating and accumulating down the

road. So that's a real good part of this bill. If you need the money and it's a

short-term thing, well, 62 days and it has to be paid off.

Now, my

thing with this loan thing is that I'd like to see the regulations somehow so

you just don't go borrow money to pay off and keep paying off and keep paying

off. Then you will accumulate interest and interest down the road. I'll ask a

few questions about that when we get to it.

But

there is standard legislation, like I said, in all the provinces other than

Quebec. The officials in the Department of Service NL indicated that the main

thing that they were trying to do was to do the length of the term and the

amount of borrowing. That was the gist of this bill.

The huge

thing and I know the minister also mentioned it is the cost of borrowing.

Sometimes you can look at interest rates and some people will offer 3, 4 per

cent and then you look at some credit cards and they are up to 29 per cent and

stuff like that. So this part will be regulated now. So in Alberta, it's $15 on

every $100. In PEI, it's $25 on every $100.

Ernst &

Young conducted for Ontario and they looked at the cost, because obviously these

people have to do business. To do business they need a store, they need

employees, they have overheads and everything else, so there is a cost to doing

this type of business. And payday loans can be a great thing. It's a quick fix

when someone finds themselves in a circumstance that they need it, so there is a

cost to it.

After

they looked at all the different jurisdictions across Canada they came up with a

cost of 21.5, so that's $21.50. That's what Ernst & Young did with Ontario. So

we determined in Newfoundland and Labrador, our officials in the department

determined that $21 would be the cost per $100 being considered for Newfoundland

and Labrador. Again that's in the regulations. We don't know that for sure yet.

We're hoping that that's where government is going to go, but that's part of the

regulations that will be brought in.

Also

payday loans themselves have a lot of issues too. Like I said before, they

supply a service. It's a service to people. They have costs and you have to look

at the costs that they have: p eople with bad debt, the cost of collecting money, you

have store front costs, you have credit checks and you have all kinds of

administration costs. So that's why this $21 that Ernst & Young went and had a

look at, they said this is reasonable. So I hope government stays with that.

Under the legislation we're doing here today just to

conclude now in a second the principal and the term of the loan are issues

that we're looking at. We're looking at the total cost of borrowing. We're

looking at the timeline. You have 62 days that the person will have to get the

loan paid off, which is good.

Sometimes if you look at these payday loans, and in the

past you look at the amount of interest they can charge, the longer it goes on

the more money people will have to pay. It's all about trying to protect the

consumer, trying to protect the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador to make

sure there's a service there they can avail of and they get the best deal and

they're not gouged.

I think the bill will go a long way in helping that,

but as I went over and did the briefing with the department, a lot of the

details are going to be in the regulations that are coming afterwards. I'd

really like to see the details, but these are the things they discussed at the

briefing. They told us this was the plan. A limit of $1,500 and the total number

of days is 62 days.

I want to thank you for your time, Madam Speaker.

That's what I have to say about this bill.

Thank you.

MADAM SPEAKER:

The

Speaker recognizes the hon. the Member for Stephenville Port au Port.

MR.

FINN:

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

It's certainly great to rise today to speak to Bill 52,

An Act to Amend the

Consumer

Protection and Business Practices Act. Basically, what we're doing here under

consumer protection, which falls under the mandate of the Minister of Service

NL, essentially we're talking about payday loans, as alluded to by the Member

for Cape St. Francis, as well as our Government House Leader and the Minister of

Service NL briefly spoke to.

First, I guess I'd like to

take the opportunity to thank the minister, as well as his parliamentary

secretary, the Member for Lab West for their due diligence in working with staff

to come up with the legislation with respect to this. It's something I think has

been debated about here in the House before. If I'm not mistaken, I know it came

up after 2007, again in 2010 and subsequently, I believe, in 2011, there were

questions in this House back and forth on particulars around implementing

legislation to regulate payday loans.

So it's

certainly something very important to talk about, whenever we're talking about

protecting consumers. Essentially, protecting consumers in this province is

protecting the people. It's extremely important that we have provisions in place

to ensure that people are being treated fairly and that's specifically with

respect to finances. Of course, finances are very important to each and every

one of us. I want to thank the minister and his staff for bringing in this

important piece of legislation.

Whatever

the reason anyone might use this service and be it, as mentioned, that someone

may fall on hard times and requires a loan, perhaps looking for a bit of extra

spending money, or it could be something to bail them out of a situation, it

could be a student requiring additional finances. Whatever the reason anyone

uses a loan, the important piece here is that there needs to be regulations

around to protect that individual. Right here, we're not entirely promoting the

use of payday loans but we're looking at the ability to regulate it.

In terms

of protecting consumers, this was something that came up in the mandate letter,

I understand, to the Minister of Service NL as well. Part of that would be to

take a look at other jurisdictions in the country, take a look at other

provinces in the country and see what they're doing in terms of protecting

consumers across all levels. So this is just one example of the minister

following through on that mandate letter.

looking at other jurisdictions, as was mentioned, Newfoundland is one of the

only jurisdictions that still do not have any legislation in place regarding

payday loans. It's quite concerning. We don't like to be falling behind the

times, if you will, particularly around something as important as this.

The

payday loan kind of field, if you will, came prominently around the early 2000s.

In 2007 it prompted the federal government to actually amend the

Criminal Code of Canada to

support legislation around regulating payday lenders. It encouraged the

provinces at the time to develop their own regulations. While most other

jurisdictions did put regulations in place, as I say, Madam Speaker, we're

certainly one of the last to follow suit.

The former administration, I understand, had looked at this

and had opportunity to do so. At the time, when they looked into it I think it

was in 2010 they came out and said that they would just certainly at this time

leave the industry unregulated. So it's just an example. It's alarming to hear

on this side of the House that we had an opportunity under the former

administration to implement regulations, introduce legislation around this,

around payday loans and we didn't follow through on it.

This is something that this government notices again.

Ironically, it falls under the Minister of Service NL who is also the Minister

of Municipal Affairs . We

spent some lengthy time in the House last week and again this week discussing

the procurement act. And the procurement was just another example of legislation

that the Opposition had opportunity to introduce and failed to do so. So here we

are now, I guess, picking up the ball again, if you will, that they had dropped

in terms of not following through on implementing some legislation.

So I

guess some of the key components here it's going to allow the lenders of

payday loans to be licensed. Right now, these areas aren't entirely licensed and

we're going to be able to impose restrictions and obligations on the lenders. So

there's going to be a variety of restrictions and obligations on the lenders to

ensure that they live up to their commitment in terms of honouring the best

business practices and protecting our consumers.

And I

understand that there are some dozen to 15 or so, somewhere in that vicinity, 12

to 15, it could be upwards close to 20 different institutions in this province

right now that would certainly fall under this bill as a payday loan lender. So

by licensing them and providing regulations for them to abide by I also

understand that the minister's department had consulted with some of these

organizations. And we've heard that they're looking forward to regulations.

Right

now, there are not too many things that are limiting and prohibiting them from

what they wish. The Criminal Code of

Canada I believe under

section 347, as was noted would require payday

lenders that they wouldn't be able to borrow anything up to an annual interest

rate of 60 per cent, but what we're seeing with these payday lenders is that

they're able to kind of circumvent that in some areas. So I think this led to

the Department of Justice and Public Safety launching an investigation and, in

2013, they came back and said well, there was nothing that could be done at the

time due to the best interest of the public.

But as a

result of that, we now have these organizations and financial institutions and

financial lending arms kind of creating their own rules, if you will, to some

degree.

I'll

give you an example because I was actually an individual who took advantage of

one of these payday loan institutions. It wasn't that long ago. Just over 10

years ago, I was a post-secondary student here in this province and finding

myself in need of a few extra funds, I believe. I distinctly remember going to

one of the payday loan lenders here. And it kind of worked out something like

this. Well, you were under the impression and told you would be given X amount

of dollars of a loan. If you wanted $100, it may cost you $140. But, in addition

to that, there would be a fee. There would be an application fee; it could be

$25.

And once

you pay your application fee, then they've giving you a debit card. Then there's

a charge every time you use that debit. In addition to that, while they tell you

that there's an interest rate, could say 20 per cent or more, there might also

be a surcharge. So by the time you're all said and done, some of the interest

rates that were involved in these payday loans could be upwards to 300, 400, 500

per cent in instances.

So it's

one thing for individuals who need money in a time, whether again it could be

undue hardship, it could be just looking to take on another extracurricular or

for whatever reason, but to be completely gouged or misled and misguided in

doing so is not fair to the consumer, certainly not fair to anyone. So it is

extremely important that we look forward in moving with this legislation.

Under

this legislation we're going to limit the total cost of borrowing. As I just

alluded to, there could be a number of fees captured in the payday loan piece,

be it your upfront fee, your application fee, your debit card use fee, another

surcharge, the principal of the loan, the actual interest on that principal and

so on and so forth.

So under

this legislation what we're aiming to do is to capture the total cost of

borrowing. Based on a jurisdictional scan, and the minister alluded to that as

well in his opening remarks, as did the Member for Cape St. Francis, the ranges

right now on this total maximum cost from other provinces that have this

legislation is somewhere around $15 to $25 per $100 borrowed. So somewhere in

that range I think Ernst & Young had done a report, and they've concluded that

$21 would be kind of a key figure we could work with here based on your per

$100.

Based on

that, this is the amount we're looking at setting as the total cost of

borrowing. That would, in fact, ensure that these loan institutions or financial

arms that engage in these payday loans would ensure that every other fee they

factor in there would be captured in this total cost of borrowing. They are

taking away any of this hidden fees or hidden surcharges.

addition to limiting the costs of borrowing, we are also going to now require

them in this legislation to ensure that the loan agreements are specified. And

specified in a sense that we have an exact idea on what the terms are, what the

information is going to be in that contract and the disclosure statements of

such. Because a lot of times, as most people are aware, when you go to sign

financial statements and documents there's always a fine print and there's

always an extra stipulation, and there's always another piece added on there.

So an

important piece of this legislation is to ensure that these agreements are

clearly specified with their terms, their duration, the information and

disclosure statements.

We're

also going to do, under this legislation, provide borrowers with a cancellation

right. This is an important piece because I think, fair to say, I'm certainly

guilty of having done this before. Perhaps you might make a decision or engage

in a business transaction or a financial transaction and say, oh my God, why did

I do that, or should I not have done that kind of a buyer's remorse attitude,

if you will, where you had a second thought.

Under

this legislation, in terms of the cancellation right, it is specified in there.

I'll let the minister speak to it perhaps when we get to the Committee stage of

the bill. But, in essence, it's around you have enough opportunity that if you

engaged in a contract for a payday loan and went home that evening we'll say

perhaps you went home and you had a talk with your spouse or your family and

they kind of decided, in the best interest of the financial situation right now,

we should not engage in this payday loan.

If you

didn't already, obviously, extract money and use, or cash in part of that loan,

the specifics in the legislation would allow you, as a buyer's remorse, to go

back the following day and to cancel out without penalty. Some of those

regulations will come forward in due time, but that's kind of the idea. So that

there is a bit of a buyer's remorse situation here, and giving the consumers and

the people in this province an opportunity to kind of go back to the institution

and speak about this once again.

One of

the other things we'll be doing with respect to this legislation is making

certain payday lender practices to be prohibited. Certain things they are into

now would certainly be prohibited, and providing our borrowers with remedies

when the lenders to do not honour their responsibilities. So kind of along the

same lines as this buyer's remorse attitude, but we'd be making sure the

lender's practices, certain practices they have now would be prohibited and when

they do not honour their responsibilities there would be repercussions as well.

I think

it's an extremely important piece of legislation. It positions us to set out

regulations in this field. Again, something that's not uncommon in other

provinces in this country.

Some of

the other interesting components of this is we're developing

an act that is

going to look at some specific terms. Some of the

definitions in there, as I

said, will probably come through a bit clearer at the Committee stage, but as

the Member for Cape St. Francis alluded to a maximum term of around 62 days.

We're looking at the advancements of $1,500 or less. We're kind of putting in

certain provisions so there are no exorbitant amounts that are lent out and no

real short terms where there are great strains on an individual and their

ability to pay back that loan as well.

Again, I

think it's certainly an important piece of legislation. I could go on, Madam

Speaker, but I do know that the minister will get a chance to elaborate on some

of the more details, but certainly something that I'm proud to speak to. I think

every time we have an opportunity as government to introduce legislation that's

going to protect consumers in our province, we have, not only a responsibility

but I think we have an obligation to do so. I think we have an obligation to the

taxpayers of our province to do this.

I know

the Minister of Business would feel the same way when it comes to the protection

of consumers around any other business transactions, and this is certainly no

different.

I'm very

pleased to see the Minister of Service NL, with the work from the parliamentary

secretary, as mentioned, the Member for Lab West, between the two of them and

their staff to take on this responsibility. Again, take on this as a

responsibility as something that the former administration had every opportunity

presented to them to introduce this legislation and did not do so. Here we are

again, as I mentioned earlier, picking up an area where we have not only

responsibility but an obligation to help the individuals in our province and

protect them under this act.

I look

forward to hearing some of the comments from the Members opposite as the debate

continues. I think we'll probably see co-operation from all sides. I'd certainly

be shocked if we did not see co-operation from all sides. It's something that

this side has been asking for, for quite some time, and within their first year

of government are certainly able to capitalize on that and introduce this

legislation. It will be interesting to hear support from the Third Party and our

independent member as well.

Again, I

just wanted to thank you for the opportunity to speak, Madam Speaker. Thank you

to the minister for bringing in this legislation, very timely indeed.

Thank

you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER:

The Speaker recognizes the

hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

This

bill, The Consumer Protection and Business Practices Act, there are a lot of

good things in this legislation, as I just heard colleagues opposite and my own

colleague from Cape St. Francis discuss it. We all know that's a problem. It has

been well reported, a well-documented issue within our society that these payday

loans put people in precarious situations. It's an element of our society.

People do require and do need these facilities just to survive in a lot of

cases. I understand, and it's a necessity to have legislation in place to

protect both the lender and the borrower.

A couple

of things; I was listening to some speaking there, I wrote down I wanted to

point out. Just one thing in response to the minister and the Member opposite

just speaking when they make reference to what the former government never did.

That's a fair comment, I guess, because the former government never brought in

legislation, but there was a reason for that. It was under

section 347 of the

Criminal Code . It's still there. I

understand this legislation is in addition to that, so that's fair.

This is

their legislation, the current government's. They've been in government for a

year. So if they feel good about their legislation, take pride in it, compliment

themselves, but it's kind of growing old that every piece of legislation I

know this might be the communications plan that's going on, but every comment

said, you can't blame someone else. Take credit, you have your legislation. If

you feel good about it, be happy for yourselves.

We're

not the cause of the snowstorm we're getting tomorrow, I'm sorry. I know you'd

like to blame us for that too. It kind of grows old and it was a valid reason

why this former administration never brought it in. It was documented and the

former ministers of SNL gave the rationale. That's for the public to agree or

disagree with. There were valid arguments on both sides of the equation.

Bringing in this bill, there are a lot of good things in it.

A couple

of things that I don't know if it caused me concern, but I think it's worthy

of mentioning. Twenty-one dollars per $100; I know that it ranges from $15 to

$25. Alberta is $15, PEI is $25. You have to find the average; I guess you do

your cross-jurisdictional scan. Twenty-one dollars per $100 is still a fairly

substantial amount. You're looking at a 21 per cent interest rate.

I know

there are other pieces of legislation that's going the limited amount you can

borrow for $1,500. Now, I'm not sure how often that borrowing can happen. I know

it's wrote there that they'll put a limit on the borrowing, but will that

borrowing be for the 62 days, whatever that's wrote there, or can you go every

week and get that? We'll get to that, I'm sure, later on and ask questions.

Twenty-one dollars per $100 is still a fairly substantial amount of money when

you're borrowing. That's $200 per $1,000. It does add up. I understand the

legislation will give some protection.

I guess

another point and I say it with all due respect to people that use these

payday loans and are supporters on both sides of the pros and cons of it. I just

wonder where we have this in our Criminal

Code right now, which was the former government's rationale I somewhat, as

a personal note, it is not really a policy of this Opposition but my personal

gut, I wonder how much government need to get involved in people's behaviours.

The fact

of the matter is, as good as this legislation may be, and it may be great

legislation, a lot of this comes down to personal behaviour, personal

circumstances. We all know lots of circumstances where people get in binds, and

financial binds are very terrible; there are a lot of sad situations. I guess

there is no one here can dispute if people need money they'll go whatever route

they can find because if you're in a financial bind, if you can't get it here,

you'll try there and we all know how it works.

understand the logic of the government for introducing this legislation and I'm

not saying I'm opposed to this legislation but that's just something that hits

me when I read it, that's just something that jumped out at me. It is like, can

we really legislate people's behaviours? That is just something, on a very

personal note, that I think that no one here can dispute that this will not be

the cure all, but it will offer protection to those people who use these

institutions. That

part I think is good. I just feel that human behaviour is

challenging at the best of times. Obviously you can never eliminate risks, but

you do your best to minimize.

As I

said, Madam Speaker, it's important for people who need to use the services.

They need to be protected. On that issue, I'll acknowledge that is a good thing.

During

the briefings I was reading even officials in the department acknowledge that

the $21 per $100 is a high interest rate. They acknowledge that it is a high

cost of operation in these businesses, their store front costs, their credit

checks and the cost of collection. Then we get into the regulations piece.

Earlier this week we had a lot of discussion on the procurement legislation and

we voted in favour of the procurement legislation, but we asked a lot of

questions and I think it's very important to any legislation to be on the record

of asking those questions. This is another piece of legislation where the

regulations are not there. They're going to come but we don't know what they

are.

I know

this is not reinventing the wheel. This is not the first time a piece of

legislation came through without the regulations being attached, but it's our

responsibility to highlight that fact as well because it is another piece of

legislation where these regulations will come later. They don't know if they're

going to charge $21 per $100. That's what they're looking at. That's one example

of many more regulations to come.

Again,

it's incumbent upon up as the Opposition to bring out some it's not really

flaws. It is concerns. They're issues. It's worth noting. The Minister of

Service NL gets all excited. He's over there waving and smiling. I guess it's a

good time maybe he will answer these questions later in Committee.

As I

said, Madam Speaker, it's not a matter of really opposing this legislation, but

I think there is some level of concern and obligation to bring a lot of these

issues out. My colleague for Cape St. Francis mentioned different issues as

well.

We know

the society we live in, financial situations are very troublesome to a lot of

people and when they experience them, it creates a lot of desperation. Offering

this protection to protect these people from getting into an unfair or a

challenging situation, that part, I really get that. I think that's important,

but I don't want to see us creating another level of bureaucracy. When we

already have it in the Criminal Code ,

we're bringing our own legislation over existing legislation that will cover for

these sorts of things.

I know

it hasn't been exercised enough. We hear all the personal stories. We're heard a

lot of them. Some people borrow $600. They have to pay