May 18, 2006 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 23

The House met at 1:30 p.m

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: the

hon. the Member for the District of Gander; the hon. the Member for the District

of Grand Falls-Buchans; the hon. the Member for the District of

Windsor-Springdale; the hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la

Hune, and the hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member -

MR. E. BYRNE: A point of Order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: I am sorry, I believe we have a point of order being called

by the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not mean to interrupt with members' statements, but I am just looking

at the Order Paper today and there seems to be some inaccuracies in it,

particularly on the motion side. Yesterday as House Leader, I moved, according

to Standing Order 11, two motions, one that the House not adjourn at 5:30 and

not at 10:00. Those motions are not on the paper, so I do want to make sure that

the - I talked to the Clerk, I think the paper is going to be reprinted but

those motions should be there.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair notes the inaccuracy and I have been informed by

the Table Officers that a reprint of the Order Paper is in the process of being

arranged. The Chair certainly confirms that these motions were given notice of

in last evening's session.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for the District of Gander, on a

member's statement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to recognize

the recent accomplishments of the Gander Minor Hockey Association.

This past April, the Gander Minor Hockey Association hosted the Bantam Irving

Oil Cup. This was a five team hockey tournament involving teams representing New

Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, and also Newfoundland and

Labrador. In total, the Gander Minor Hockey Association hosted over 300

participants, officials, and family members during their stay.

Mr. Speaker, this event attracted a great deal of attention from hockey

families and personnel across Atlantic Canada and I am quite proud to say that

everyone walked away quite impressed with the experience and the fine

Newfoundland and Labrador hospitality. I would also like to congratulate the 200

volunteers who helped make this event such a tremendous success.

Finally, I would like to say thank you to the Gander Pee Wee Flyers for being

such great ambassadors for the District of Gander and for our Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate a Grand Falls-Windsor resident who

was recently bestowed with one of the highest accolades from his peers, a

Lifetime Achievement Award for his thirty-plus years in real estate.

The award, from the Newfoundland and Labrador Association of Realtors, was

presented to Owen Grimes in recognition of his many years of dedicated service.

Mr. Grimes can trace his real estate history back to a part-time job with Samco

Services, where he worked in the profession. When he started that job, he was

also working at the paper mill. After his second year with Samco, he acquired

his real estate licence and then started into the business full time.

Mr. Speaker, in 1982 Owen decided to write his broker's licence. Upon

completion of this exam, he started his own company, Owen Grimes Realty. Mr.

Grimes says selling real estate has been a rewarding experience. One of the big

things he recalls about selling real estate was seeing first-time home buyers

put their complete trust in him to guide them through the process, and then to

see the satisfaction of a family locate to their first home.

This year, he sold his business to his employees, who bought the franchise.

Now he is retired from real estate and has only positive things to say about the

industry.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in

congratulating Owen Grimes on receiving a Lifetime Achievement Award from the

Newfoundland and Labrador Association of Realtors.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Windsor-Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise to inform my colleagues in this hon. House today that on

Saturday, May 13, it was my pleasure to attend the thirtieth annual Ceremonial

Review of 842 Bomber Squadron of Royal Canadian Air Cadets in Grand

Falls-Windsor.

The Reviewing Officer was His Honour, the Honourable Edward Roberts,

Lieutenant Governor of Newfoundland and Labrador. His attendance was much

appreciated by the cadets and their families.

Mr. Speaker, 842 Bomber Squadron is sponsored by the Royal Canadian Legion,

Branch 12, and their participation over so many years is indicative of the

Branch's dedication to the youth of our community.

A review of the Squadron's activities over the past year is very

impressive. Their programs vary from participation in Remembrance Day ceremonies

to public speaking, and includes such events as the Provincial Biathlon

Competition in Corner Brook and Power Flight Training in Gander.

Mr. Speaker, during the ceremony the following awards were presented: AC

Chantelle Flynn was awarded Best First Year Cadet; Lac Chris Hamyln was awarded

Best Second Year Cadet; Sergeant Brad MacKenzie was awarded Most Improved Cadet;

Flight Sergeant Samantha George was awarded Best Dress, Drill Deportment;

Sergeant Rebecca Sweeney was awarded Most Dedicated to the Principles of the Air

Cadet Movement; Corporal Hailey Worboys was awarded Most Outstanding Junior NCM;

Sergeant Katie MacKenzie was awarded Most Outstanding Senior NCM; Flight

Sergeant Chris Thompson was awarded the Squadron Commanders Award; Corporal

Hailey Worboys was awarded the Royal Canadian Legion Medal of Excellence;

Sergeant Rebecca Sweeney was awarded the Lord StrathCona Medal; Sergeant Adam

Bennett was awarded the Cadet Scholarship Award; Lac Tim Granter was awarded

Most Improved Bandsperson, while Corporal Kayla Sheppard was awarded Best

Bandsperson. Five individual flight sergeants and five individual sergeants were

each awarded the Long Service Medal.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in

congratulating the award winners in 842 Bomber Squadron of the Royal Canadian

Air Cadets in Grand Falls-Windsor on a very successful year.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge another achievement of Gurpreet Sohi,

a Level III student at John Watkins Academy in Hermitage. Last year I rose in

this House to congratulate Gurpreet for winning the local and regional Lions

Club speak-off and subsequently, representing Newfoundland and Labrador in

Halifax.

This year, I am delighted again to acknowledge that Gurpreet was successful

in her provincial competitions and has recently represented Newfoundland and

Labrador in Portland, Maine. Gurpreet competed against speakers from Atlantic

Canada and Maine. The speak-off was very competitive and Gurpreet placed a very

respectable forth in the international competition.

Before competing in Maine, her final competition in the Province was held in

Port aux Basques where she presented on her topic, "The Importance of Early

Childhood Development." She feels the topic should be brought to the people's

attention, as very few people take the issue as serious as one should.

Mr. Speaker, she has enjoyed participating in public speaking for the past

three year. She encourages other students to get involved because it can be a

skill that will help students with their careers later in life. This year she

will be graduating from John Watkins Academy and furthering her education in the

field of medicine, specializing in pediatrics.

Gurpreet is disappointed her opportunity for participating in this level of

public speaking has come to an end and she can no longer represent her own

school. However, she is confident that through her success she has encouraged

other local students to become involved and they will be quite capable of

representing John Watkins Academy in future competitions.

Mr. Speaker, she has made a tremendous contribution to the educational and

social life at John Watkins Academy. Students are able to reflect and appreciate

her accomplishments. Her commitment and dedication toward education and personal

success can be a guide for all those that know her.

I join the students, teachers and staff of John Watkins Academy, the

residents of Hermitage, Sandyville and the Coast of Bays region in

congratulating her on her success in education and public speaking. I wish her

much luck as she furthers her education into the medical field that she has

chosen. I am certain that Gurpreet will do well and we will hear much more about

the accomplishments Gurpreet Sohi in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, recently I announced another successful year for

the Annual Run for the Janeway. The tremendous success of this event would not

be possible without the help of many individuals and businesses.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to congratulate our local newspaper, The Compass ,

for receiving the Best Community Service Award at the Atlantic Community

Newspaper Association's Better Newspaper Competition held on May 6 in Saint

John, New Brunswick.

This award is for a special service to the community that goes beyond the

normal role of the newspaper and shows community leadership. Judged on

innovation of idea, value to the community, interest to readers and a degree of

difficulty and involvement.

Mr. Speaker, The Compass has been heavily involved with the Run for

the Janeway since its inception and a member of that business serves on the

organizing committee.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating The Compass on placing first and winning the Community

Service Award.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise this afternoon to mark National Police Week that began

May 14 and will conclude on May 20, 2006. Police Week is dedicated to increasing

community awareness and recognition of policing services while strengthening

police-community ties. This special week reminds us that police and community

co-operation is the key to safer homes and safer communities.

This years theme is "Working Together for Safer Communities" and

throughout the week the RNC and the RCMP have taken

part in numerous activities

with stakeholders and the media to promotes the concept of police and

communities working together to enhance public security and safety. Activities

have included visits to selected seniors' homes in the Northeast Avalon area

with Mother's Day flowers, a cake cutting at the Avalon Mall with Chief Browne

of the RNC and Assistant Commissioner Gerry Lynch of the Royal Canadian Mounted

Police, as well as presentations in schools proudly supported by the media and

various community groups.

National Police Week is also a time to reflect and to appreciate the security

and safety that we and all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians feel today and often

take for granted. In this Province there are hundreds of officers who work hard

each and every day to protect our communities and our families. I would like to

recognize police officers across the Province for their dedication and their

commitment to the enhancement of public safety and security.

Mr. Speaker, our government committed to providing a high level of public

protection, and we have worked diligently over the past two-and-a-half years to

provide both the RCMP and the RNC with the human and operational resources that

they require to ensure the people of the Province feel safe and sound in their

communities. I know that all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians were pleased when

government invested $10 million to enhance policing in Budget 2006-2007 and will

continue to ensure public safety by making further sound investments in policing

throughout the Province.

I would also like to take the opportunity to note that May 15 is recognized

internationally as Peace Officers' Memorial Day. Our Province has a Police and

Peace Officers' Memorial here on the grounds of the Confederation Building and

we are proud to have such a memorial which pays tribute to those police and

peace officers who have died in the line of duty.

National Police Week has been a great success and I want to thank members of

the RNC, the RCMP, community groups, teachers, seniors, students and the media,

for making this year's event so special.

Mr. Speaker, there is safety in numbers and it is so important for

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to join together to assist the police in

keeping our communities safe and sound. There are still several days left for

National Police Week and I would encourage everyone to take

part in the

activities and to remember to always support our police officers throughout

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the Justice Minister and Attorney General for supplying

me with a copy of his statement.

This side of the House would like to join with government in congratulating

police officers all over this Province and support National Police Week. I would

say that every week is police week, when you think of the risk of the

occupation, those peace officers who are looking to communities and families to

keep them safe and are actually dying in the line of duty and putting their own

selves at risk to protect us.

I think about the community involvement of police officers today. When I look

at my own district, every facet of every organization is filled with police

officers, the volunteer work they do. They are into all parts of recreation. You

see them in hockey, figure skating. No matter what is going on in the community,

police officers are there.

They also provide a great service to our business community. Lots of times

you will see RCMP officers giving presentations on break-ins, and what

businesses can do to prevent such a thing. You see them working with seniors,

and how they can be protected from fraud activities and so on.

It was only a month or so ago that I saw the RCMP teaming up with Health and

Community Services and the Pharmaceutical Association, giving a presentation on

drugs and crystal meth in our communities throughout our Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS THISTLE: Just a moment to conclude, if you would?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MS THISTLE: In closing, I would like to say a big thank you to the RCMP

men and women throughout our Province for doing their best, working hard to keep

us safe. Even just the highway reports that they give us on location help us all

driving over the highway. Again, I say thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am happy to join in recognizing National Police Week and to recognize and

thank the women and men of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary and the Royal

Canadian Mounted Police for helping us build safer communities in Newfoundland

and Labrador, because that is what policing is supposed to be all about, and the

new notion of community policing obviously highlights the role of the police

force in our communities.

I had an up-close example, Mr. Speaker, of how that can work in our schools

when my own daughter at Bishop Field was a participant in the DARE program and I

was asked to present certificates to all of the graduates who were involved in

this drug and alcohol awareness campaign so ably run by the Royal Newfoundland

Constabulary to give young people an opportunity to understand -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Where was I?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARRIS: One of these days that rule has to change, Mr. Speaker.

The DARE program, yes. I don't know exactly what all the letters stand for,

but drug and alcohol awareness has something to do with it, and it is obviously

very important that young people get exposed to the knowledge of drug and

alcohol. I think they have moved the age down. They used to do this in high

school, now they are doing it with kids who are, like my daughter, in Grade 6,

before they go to junior high and get exposed to whatever it is they are going

to be exposed to there. At least they are doing that with a knowledge of what it

is all about and little bit of fortification, I suppose, in keeping their own

counsel and doing what they believe is right for them without being overly

influenced by their peers.

I think it is important that we support the work of the police and recognize

the important role they play in building safer communities for all of us.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further Statements by Ministers.

Oral questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, for the past eighteen months we have been hearing about one

crisis or another in the fishing industry of our Province. Today, on the Open

Line Show, I heard the Premier state that it is time for government to get out

there immediately and deal with fisheries issues, even though many of these

problems, as I said, have been around for nearly two years. The Premier's

hasty response to this crisis, which appeared to be nothing more than a smoke

screen to deflect attention away from his inaction in fisheries issues, was to

hold a summit. However, he could not, yesterday at least, provide the time, the

date or the location of this so-called summit.

I ask the Premier: Will you consider holding this summit in a community which

has seen its plant close, and will you allow anyone who wants to make a

presentation at that summit the opportunity to do so?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, how the hon. gentleman opposite could say

we have done nothing with regard to the fishery - obviously, we have been

extremely active in the fishery. He doesn't like the fact that we are

extremely active in what we are doing and he doesn't like the fact that we

have gone out. If we don't go out to consult, he has something to say, he

objects to the fact that we are not consulting with the people. Now we are going

to have a town hall sort of meeting whereby people can come in, and we are

prepared to listen; the type of exercise that was a huge success in Labrador

when we went up with a ministerial panel, invited people to the meeting, sat

there, listened, heard what they had to say and acted on their recommendations.

That is exactly what is going to happen here.

This meeting is being arranged together with the federal government. We have

a good working relationship with the federal government, unlike the relationship

that the previous government had with their counterparts in Ottawa, which was a

Liberal government. I think the fact that we are working in consort with our

federal minister, the federal Minister of Fisheries, we were able to allocate

his time and his officials' time - his deputy minister is actually going to be

here as well as our minister and deputy minister and officials from the

department. This is going to be a very worthwhile exercise. It is taking place

in St. John's because that happens to be the one place where we can pull

everybody together.

The House of Assembly, of course, will be open next week in order to try and

accommodate my colleagues opposite, the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader

of the New Democratic Party. This will be taking place in St. John's, so

everybody is within striking distance of St. John's at this particular point

in time. It happens to be the most convenient location. We do not want to go out

and cherry-pick communities. We would be accused then of showing favouritism for

one community over the other. So, we are bringing people to the capital city in

order to have this discussion, and we are looking forward to it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, when the Premier talks about talking to the

people, people have been talking and people have been crying out for action from

this government for nearly two years now. If he is talking about what he has

done for this town or that, ask the people of Harbour Breton, because I am sure

you saw that young lady last night cry as she left that town for employment

elsewhere.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier should realize that probably one of the most

important things that could be done to help this ailing fishery in our Province

today is a licence buyback and an early retirement package. Yesterday, the

Premier indicated publicly that the early retirement program would not be the

focal point of this summit, even though it is a prime opportunity to have this

discussion, because, as you said, your friend and colleague, Mr. Hearn, the

Minister of Fisheries for Canada, will be at this meeting.

I ask the Premier: Why won't you use this opportunity to pressure the

federal government for an early retirement package and a licence buyout program

that will address some of the issues that are in the fishery?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, every tear that is shed by anybody in any

of these communities is not lost on me by a long shot. I happen to know that

woman. I attended - the member was there when we attended in Harbour Breton.

That woman was there at that particular point in time. She was one of hundreds

who were crying in the room that time. I vividly remember the fifteen year olds

and sixteen year olds whose parents were forced to leave their community. So,

that certainly was not lost on me. That is the reason we are trying to do

absolutely everything we can. That is why we attended in the community of

Harbour Breton. That is why we have exhausted every possible opportunity, and we

will continue to do so. We are continuing to work on the Harbour Breton concerns

dealing with the environmental concerns.

With regard to early retirement, Mr. Speaker, our government position is very

clear on early retirement. It has been for a long while. The former Minister of

Fisheries, the current Minister of Fisheries, we came out very clearly. We put

our money where our mouth is. We strongly support early retirement. Early

retirement will be discussed in this town hall meeting. It will, certainly, be

discussed throughout. I mean, we are not closing this off though and narrowing

this particular meeting to a discussion solely on early retirement. The issues

are too many. There are too many very serious issues. We want to make sure that

we do not appear to be bringing federal officials in here into a room so that we

can jam them solely on early retirement. Our position is very clear. The federal

government knows where we are. The workers know where we are. The union knows

where we are. The communities know where we are. Make no mistake about it, we

are strongly in favour of early retirement and it will be discussed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier just indicated that he knew the young lady that we were

referencing last night on CBC. Yes, Mr. Premier, the night before, by the way,

she thanked you and the Minister of Fisheries for driving her out of this

Province to seek work.

Mr. Speaker, a couple of weeks ago the Premier stated in this House of

Assembly that you have to pick your battles with the federal government, in

response to a question asked by my colleague, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair, and you had to choose the issues that you were going to pick up for.

I ask the Premier: Do you think the lives of thousands of people in an ailing

fishery is worth taking up the battle for early retirement and licence buyback

with the federal government? Is this a battle worthy of your attention, I ask

the Premier?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Quite simply, very much so.

I would ask the Leader of the Opposition to refer to my letter which I wrote

to the Leader of the Conservative Party and the leader of all parties during the

last election. The top items were fisheries items. We made them our number one

priority and they continue to be our number one priority. Now, if they think

that the best approach here is to go in and fight tooth and nail on Wednesday

morning with the federal minister over the issue solely of early retirement,

completely to the detriment of all other issues, completely to the detriment of

all other programs, all other initiatives, all other things that the federal

government can help us with, whether it happens to be foreign overfishing,

whether it happens to be income support, whether it happens to be aquaculture

initiatives, and have the federal minister and the federal government say: No, I

am sorry, we are not going to talk to you about any of those now because we are

in a battle over early retirement.

Well, when you talk about picking your battles, you have to strategic, you

have to be smart as to how you do it and you have to get the results at the end

of the day, and that is what we did with the Atlantic Accord and it worked.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: I say to the Premier, the only battles that he is willing to

take on are those that he knows he can win.

Mr. Speaker, in referencing the letter that he wrote to the Prime Minister

during the election, there was one paragraph in the letter on early retirement

and the response that he got back from Stephen Harper, the Prime Minister of

Canada, was equally long - one paragraph. That is all I have seen from you and

the Prime Minister since then.

Mr. Speaker, fish harvesters in the Province are experiencing one of the

worst fishing seasons in recent memory as they see the prices for catch and

their quotas cut. I ask the Premier: Have you had any discussions with your

close friend and colleague, Minister Hearn, about eliminating some of the

licence fees and other fees that these harvesters are paying? Maybe just that as

a token, that you are interested in these individuals who are trying to earn a

living from the sea of the day, maybe that would at least let these people know

that you care something about them.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, we have had discussions with the federal

Minister of Fisheries and Oceans since he came to office about the fee

structure. I have been in meetings where the Atlantic Council of Ministers

raised this very issue here in St. John's with our federal counterpart because

this is an Atlantic Canada wide problem, and the federal minister has undertaken

to review those matters with a view to lessening the burden.

Equally, on the processing side, Mr. Speaker, this government reduced and

credited back processing fees to processors and hopefully that would have a

positive impact -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Hopefully, that would have some positive impact, Mr.

Speaker, on what they could in turn then pass along to their workers, including

harvesters.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister, you know the fishing season is half over, or more than

half for some harvesters. When do you think we might hear from your federal

colleague on that issue of licences and fees?

Mr. Speaker, over the past two days I have stood in this House of Assembly

and presented petitions on behalf of the residents of the Northern Peninsula who

are calling on government to establish an all-party committee to come up there,

on the Northern Peninsula, and sit down with the people who find themselves out

of work through what they consider to be inaction on behalf of this government.

They want to know if you will establish an all-party committee and when that

committee will be travelling to the Northern Peninsula?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I have publicly, and in this Chamber,

invited all members of this House to work together, to work collectively, to

find solutions to a very, very serious problem in the fishery. There is an open

invitation, as of yesterday and again today, to the various parties in the House

- the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the New Democratic Party - to

come and discuss with us, next Wednesday, as to what their concerns are, to come

up with solutions, to be constructive, to be consistent, to be consistent in

their positions so that it reflects the positions they took.

For example, when the Leader of the Opposition was Minister of Fisheries, we

would like him to be consistent with where he stood on the all-party committee,

what his recommendations were, what he stood for when he was Minister of

Fisheries, and we want people to work together. So, when it comes to an

all-party committee, we are an all-party committee in this House. We act

together here, we act collectively, and I think it is in the best interest of

the people of this Province to come up with solutions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Maybe the Premier can tell me when we are all going to go to

the Northern Peninsula to meet with these residents. Is that what you are

saying? Because, you are right, we can work collectively together on an

all-party committee because I have done that with some of your colleagues and

the Leader of the NDP. What these people are asking for is an all-party

committee to visit these people on the Northern Peninsula but, obviously, you

are not going to do it because you did not say yes.

Mr. Speaker, my final question is for the Minister of Human Resources, Labour

and Employment, because he is the minister responsible for workers'

compensation.

Mr. Speaker, we know that two processing companies in this Province that are

run and owned by the same individuals owe Workers' Comp approximately

$500,000, and this government has done nothing to collect it. That is my

understanding.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Human Resources and Labour tell us if the

employees who worked for these companies were covered by Worker's Comp when

these fees were not paid?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member raises a very important question,

but I am not in a position to be able to provide a direct answer here today. I

will take the question and consult with the Minister of Human Resources, Labour

and Employment, and he will report back to the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture said he met with the

union at Grand Bank Seafoods when he sat in on the meeting of the Industrial

Council of the FFAW in St. John's several weeks ago. Mr. Speaker, this meeting

takes place annually with the presidents of all the unionized plants in the

Province and each president is given a couple of minutes in a round table format

to speak to their concerns.

I ask the minister: Do you really consider that to be an acceptable response

to a five-month old request for a meeting with you from the union executive who

represent the more than 300 workers for Grand Bank Seafoods?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries, Aquaculture and

Aboriginal Affairs.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, part of what the hon. member has to say is true

and there is another part that she either doesn't know or won't acknowledge.

Yes, the Industrial Council is a large group and I went down at their

invitation, or the invitation of the president, and I sat with them and they

each, around the table, raised issues that they wanted to raise. In addition,

Mr. Speaker, when that meeting was finished another meeting was convened in

another part of the hotel with the presidents of all of the local and others,

because there were not only presidents there, the presidents of all of the

locals on the Burin Peninsula including Grand Bank. That meeting took place too,

Mr. Speaker, and in that meeting the representative of the plant workers in

Grand Bank raised the issues with Clearwater, the processing restrictions they

would like to see on licenses and the problem of fish going to China. All of

those issues were discussed in that meeting of presidents from the Burin

Peninsula.

MR. JOYCE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I won't take any marching orders from the

incompetent Member for the Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I don't know why the minister has difficulty

agreeing to meet with the union executive of Grand Bank Seafoods. They are

calling and saying they can't get a meeting with you, Minister. All they want

is for you to agree, after five months, to let them come into St. John's and

meet with you in your office to discuss a number of issues, one being that one

of the product lines has already been moved to China; another thing, that the

boat that is being build by Clearwater to replace two existing boats will no

longer land their catch in Grand Bank. The product will have to be shipped from

somewhere else. Do you think Clearwater is going to continue to do that for a

long period of time, Mr. Minister? My problem I have with you is that you will

not even sit down with them to discuss their concerns. Why won't you agree to

meet with them in here, like they have asked?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I have no difficulty meeting with the union

from any plant in any place in this Province. As a matter of fact -

MS FOOTE: When can you do it? When?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I did not interrupt the hon. member when she

was putting her question. Now, if she could afford me the same courtesy I would

appreciate it.

What the hon. member does not understand is that I have met with

representatives of the union of Grand Bank here in St. John's. Now, if they

want to come in again and meet with me, they can call and I will set up another

meeting. I have never said I would not meet with them. All I said to the hon.

member is that I met with them. Since I met with them, four or five or six weeks

ago, to my knowledge - I will check with my office - I have had no further

request to meet with them. That is all I am saying.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the minister knows that not only have they been

asking for a meeting to sit down with you in your office to discuss these

issues, but our office has requested the same meeting and he has just refused to

meet with them. You know that the meeting that took place with the FFAW was for

a limited period of time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is having difficulty hearing the hon. member putting her question.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Bank.

I ask her to put her question quickly.

MS FOOTE: I will tell them, Mr. Speaker, now that the minister has agreed

to meet with them again, to call his office and we will see how long it takes

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS FOOTE: His words, Mr. Speaker, his words.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members to permit the member to put her question in silence.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am only repeating what the minister said, out of respect for the minister.

What we will see happen now is another request from the union for a meeting and

we will see how long it takes this time.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture said the

discussions had taken place with Service Canada about ways the federal

government can support those who worked at the FPI plant in Fortune. I

understand that support could come in the form of EI extension. Bear in mind

now, Mr. Speaker, that the majority of those affected are over fifty.

I ask the minister if this simply means that for those who want to go back to

school to be retrained, the federal government will look at extending their EI

benefits? Wouldn't he agree that this really isn't an option for the

majority of the workers?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I would assume the rules of Question Period are

such that I will have an equal amount of time to reply to the

preamble before

the hon. member got to her question on the Service Canada issue.

In that context, let me say that there was no time limit when we had the

separate meeting with the presidents of the locals from the Burin Peninsula.

They had as long as they wanted, Mr. Speaker, and all of the issues that the

hon. member raised in her

preamble were discussed at that meeting with the

president of the local from Grand Bank.

If I have another request from the representatives of the FFAW in Grand Bank,

of course I will follow up on it, but an e-mail every five or six weeks from the

hon. member saying, have you set the meeting up yet? when one of the meetings

are over just does not cut it, Mr. Speaker.

In terms of the -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Okay, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take the hon. member's

advice and not answer the question that -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members if they could reduce the debate part of their question. We

should get directly to the question, and we should avoid long introductions.

The Chair recognizes the hon. Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I can only tell the minister what the president of

the union told me, and that is, he had about three minutes to express his

concerns, at which time you spent the time talking to Earle McCurdy, so he does

not even know if you heard what his concerns were.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs

confirmed that the guidelines for the Community Enhancement Program are indeed

being reviewed. He said as well that the review would not result in the workers

of the fish plant in Fortune having to wait three months to receive the support

promised by the government.

The documentation requested by the government has been submitted for some

time, so I ask the minister if he can tell the workers who are watching today

when they can expect to receive that support? Because their EI has either run

out, or will shortly, and without such support they will be forced to leave the

Province, as many of their co-workers have done, in order to provide for their

families.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier of the Province, the Minister of Fisheries, the

former Minister of Fisheries, have stated that we, as a government, take the

situation in the fishery very, very seriously.

On May 11, people from my department met with the Mayor of Fortune. As

recently as today we had a conversation with the Mayor of Fortune. We did

request information. The information has been submitted to us. We told him at

that point in time that we would have an answer for him within two weeks, which

is next week, next Thursday, May 25, or whatever the case may be. We are working

on that time line, Mr. Speaker. There is work that has to be done.

We put in the Crab Workers Support Program last year, Mr. Speaker. We take

the situation, the impact that it is having on the plant workers in this

Province, very, very seriously, and we will do what we can as fast as we can.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Bellevue District.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Education.

The Eastern School Board has announced its intention to close several schools

Harbour East to Terrenceville, a distance of thirty-eight kilometres, and from

Grand Le Pierre to Terrenceville, a distance of twenty-five kilometres. Parents

and residents are raising concerns that the decision of the board was rushed and

not well-researched.

I ask the Minister of Education: Does she think this is a reasonable distance

for young students to travel over a road that is very treacherous during the

winter, and will she intervene in the case to save these schools?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his

question, and he raises a very serious concern for the people who are affected

I have had the opportunity, along with the MHA, to listen to the concerns of

the parents. I made it very clear at that time that the issues that they brought

forward to me, that I would relay back to the school board that was responsible

for making the decision. We had meetings. We let the parents and the concerned

citizens speak. I certainly took time; I listened to the member. I have done it

with other schools, as well, when he had concerns from the parents from Swift

Current.

Mr. Speaker, I did what I had indicated to the parents I would do. I

documented their concerns and I forwarded them to the Eastern School Board so

they could consider what the parents had relayed to me.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Minister, for meeting with the group, but the

passionate about the future of their community, and the role of the school as a

focal point within their community, as they outlined to you.

Mr. Speaker, these schools were designated as necessarily existent schools by

the previous Administration in recognition of the special circumstances they

face. The minister clearly has the option to get involved, should she choose.

I ask the minister: Will she intervene in this case and tell the board that

these are necessarily existent schools and direct them to back off with their

school closure?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, the designation of small but necessarily existent

schools came in, in 1999. There were a number of schools that received that

designation at the time.

Mr. Speaker, we have done nothing to remove the designation from these

schools. The designation was meant to indicate that these schools would be

appropriately resourced. It did not preclude or did not prevent the boards from

either the Eastern Board or any other school boards to review the configuration

and determine how they best felt they should have education delivered within

their districts that they are responsible for.

On January 31 of this year, Mr. Speaker, I wrote the Chair of the Eastern

School Board because they were looking for clarification at the time of the

designation of small but necessarily existent schools.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS BURKE: At that time I indicated to the Chair that the designation

alone does not prevent the closure of a school, as indeed many schools have been

reconfigured or closed that actually had that designation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue District.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate, I did not hear what the

minister had to say. I also would take into account that the Premier is finding

this to be a very laughable matter.

Mr. Speaker, the school board trustee for that area has written the minister

regarding these schools and asked her to get involved. The school board trustee

is recommending that the school be left open until the year 2010, the

postponement of any decision until the school is built in Terrenceville, and

give residents and parents more time to prepare for any move. This is from the

school board trustee.

I ask the minister: Has she received this letter that was sent to her on

April 21 of this year, and what is her reply to this request from the school

board trustee that represents this area?

The school board trustee for the area is asking you the question right now,

to delay the decision. This is the school board trustee asking the minister to

delay the decision and to make this school necessarily existent and to keep the

school open.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: As the member should realize, a school board trustee has asked

me to overturn the decision that was made by the board that the trustee serves

on. In particular, it causes concern that any time a trustee or a minority of

trustees do not agree with the decision of the board that they feel the minister

should step in and overturn the decision.

Mr. Speaker, there is a bigger issue here with regard to, if one board

trustee writes because they were not pleased with the decision of the board that

they actually sat on and voted on, can the minister come in and overturn that

decision? I can say, at this point in time, I will not be overturning the

decision because the trustee has put in writing that he wants me to go down and

overturn that decision.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

Mr. Speaker, Inco has stated they want to abandon the Argentia site for the

nickel plant and relocate to Long Harbour because of environmental reasons. They

want to leave an area that has been already environmentally damaged and relocate

and cause further damage to what is now a pristine area, including using Sandy

Pond as a tailings dump.

Mr. Speaker, the Argentia Management Authority already, I say to the

minister, has an indemnity granted by the federal government for the Argentia

site. Why isn't Inco taking advantage of this indemnity to construct the plant

on the already existing brownfield?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question that the hon. member has asked.

To be frank about it, had the agreement with Inco been put in place that

should have been in place, the question that you are asking today would not even

be necessary to ask, I say to the member.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate the question

that the member has asked. It is an important issue.

I want to inform the House that last Friday myself and my colleague, the new

Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, met with Inco and informed them of

government's decision. We do not agree with their move to Long Harbour for one

reason in particular that you have outlined, that it is moving from a recognized

brownfield site where there are standards in play from the federal government

for indemnity through the AMA. We do not support that move to a new site up the

road in an environmentally pristine area where there are no certainties.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, yes, the AMA has an indemnity from

the federal government known as the AMA accommodation agreement with Inco. We

believe that may be sufficient enough to mitigate any environmental concerns

that Inco has. Inco does not believe that. That is where it is right now, Mr.

Speaker; but, from our point of view, I want to be crystal clear. We have met

with Inco, and we have told them in no uncertain terms we do not support their

move from Argentia to Long Harbour.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. R. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it appears that a lot of people have been suspicious since day

one. It appears that this move by Inco is nothing more than a delay and, if

given permission to move to Long Harbour, it would only be a matter of time when

they would find a reason why it cannot be done there or anywhere else in the

Province.

Mr. Speaker, they have already chosen a site; they have made that decision.

Will the government say a definite no to polluting a pristine lake like Sandy

Lake, and what is government prepared to do to insist that Inco proceed with

building their plant at the site previously chosen and not delay things further?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, when you are dealing with a company - and I will give an example

of what you are dealing with. On November 30, we received a letter indicating

that they felt, for environmental reasons, they could not proceed with their

plans in Argentia. Yet, two weeks before that, the Chairman of Inco, Scott Hand,

was in Argentia and said to the people, at a public meeting, through the paper, The

Charter , that they would be proceeding with the development of a

hydrometallurgic facility in Argentia, knowing full well that two weeks from now

they were going to write the Province and look for a move.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Six weeks.

MR. E. BYRNE: Six weeks.

We do not support - for example, the Leader of the Opposition said, well, you

know, they have gone through the environmental assessment process.

Any company has the right to go through an environmental assessment process.

We wrote Inco and said, if you go to that, do no take that as support from the

government, because we were continuing our assessment of their proposal to us.

We have finished that assessment. We have informed Inco of what we believe.

We need to meet with the federal government, Minister Hearn, and the MP, Mr.

Manning, that if Inco has a problem, if it is real of perceived, with the

indemnity provided to the AMA, then our view is that the federal government

should provide it directly to them.

Having said all of that, we do not believe that the risks that they provided

to us, or to the people of the Province, substantiate a reason to move from

Argentia to Long Harbour.

Mr. Speaker, let me say again, had there been any - any - consideration given

to that aspect, that agreement - we would not be here discussing it today.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Question Period has expired.

MR. REID: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, in response to a question, the Minister of Natural

Resources, I think, probably just misquoted me in the House of Assembly.

The minister stood today and said that they were not in agreement with Inco

moving down the road to Long Harbour. The point I was trying to make to him was,

if they did not want them to move to Long Harbour, why did the Minister of

Environment just recently announce that he was saying to Inco that they have to

do an environmental impact study in Long Harbour?

MR. SPEAKER: Speaking to the point of order, the hon. the Government

House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: A legitimate question, and I am going to provide him with a

legitimate answer.

Inco came in with that request at the same time that our assessment was going

on with respect to the issues and all the technical geophysical, geochemical

studies, information that would be that thick, that we plowed through. They

indicated to us that timing was a problem, so we wrote back to them and said:

You can proceed with the assessment, but do not take proceeding with that, that

government supports you moving in that direction.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, while we said go ahead, with absolute

caveat that once our assessment is complete we will inform you of what our view

is of your move, we have done that and we do not support it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Members know that points of order deal with some irregularity in the

proceedings, in the Standing Orders.

There is no point of order.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to questions for which notice has been given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is interesting, when you listen to Question Period today you realize

around rural communities the problems that are facing rural communities.

My petition today is concerning the problem in the Buchans area. Even though

the people of the Buchans area are only looking for a small amount of money to

upgrade their highway, we are here in this House of Assembly and later today we

will be discussing a bill to raise $9 million on tobacco tax.

Two years ago the government brought in an increase in fees where they are

going to be getting an extra $27 million a year, and they are fees that every

ordinary man and woman in this Province can relate to. They are drivers'

licences, they are moose licences, and the things that mean so much to us in our

everyday life. We thought when those fees were raised we were going to get

better highways.

When you look at the new industries that are happening in the Buchans area,

look at the millions of dollars that the Province is going to gain through

income taxes from 250 full-time employees. Look at the money that the Province

is going to get from HST on all the goods and services sold in the area, but

still, this government has no commitment to rural communities. They cannot find

$1 million to upgrade the Buchans Highway. When I look at the Finance Minister,

and he spoke yesterday in this House, he said $300,000 was minuscule to give

Griffiths Guitars -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: That is what he said.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, a point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been called by the Minister of Finance

The Chair recognizes the minister.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think it is fundamental that when members speak in this House, they speak

appropriate and accurately and to the point. I said $300,000 was minuscule

compared to the millions that they gave out during their term to the same

company. That is what I said. Let's put it in perspective.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans presenting a

petition.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I suspected, there was no point of order. The point is that this

government left $76 million of a surplus on the table this year, in their Budget

year. That is what this government did, they left $76 million. They are not

concerned about highway safety in Buchans. They are not concerned about that.

They know that a school bus has to travel from Millertown -

MR. SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: Listen here, Mr. Finance Minister, when I was a Minister of

the Crown the Buchans Highway was in perfect condition. I never had a complaint.

I spent money on that highway. You cannot realize -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Colleagues, the Chair recognizes the member who is presenting a petition.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

You know, the government can stop this heckling back and forth. The

government can own up to their responsibility here. I will not need to stand up

day after day in this House of Assembly, all the government has to do is own up

to their moral and financial obligation of making sure that highway is safe.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

Further petitions?

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is the third petition that I have presented this week on behalf of the

residents of the Northern Peninsula who are calling upon government to strike an

all-party committee and travel to the North Peninsula to discuss with those

affected by the crisis in the fishery, sit down in that area and discuss the

issues with the concerned citizens group.

Mr. Speaker, I will read the petition again:

WHEREAS the great Northern Peninsula has suffered extreme amounts of high

unemployment for the past five years; and

WHEREAS fish plant operations have been the primary economic generator along

the Northern Peninsula; and

WHEREAS many fish plants have been closed as a direct consequence of

government action or inaction, such as New Ferolle, Englee, Black Duck Cove,

Anchor Point, as well as others; and

WHEREAS the fish plant workers are out of work; and

WHEREAS the current operating fish plants are teetering on the edge of

bankruptcy, attributable - I might add, Mr. Speaker - to government action or

inaction; and

WHEREUPON the undersigned petitioners humbly pray that you call upon the

House of Assembly to establish an all-party committee and go to the Northern

Peninsula to meet with the concerned citizen's group.

Mr. Speaker, I raised a question in the House of Assembly today pertaining to

this petition and the two that I presented already this week from the residents

of the Northern Peninsula and the Premier got up and fluffed off the idea,

saying that we can work together collectively in this House but, obviously, he

is not concerned about leaving St. John's and going to the Northern Peninsula.

As a result, he will not even allow us to strike an all-party committee, which I

happen to think would be a very valuable committee, to travel to the Northern

Peninsula. The Premier does not even have to participate, I say, Mr. Speaker,

but he can send some of his ministers and some of his backbenchers along with

some of us over here and go up there.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, my colleagues are asking: What about the

representatives from the Northern Peninsula, the two members from the Northern

Peninsula? I have gone through that three times this week. They will not present

the petition to the House, or they are afraid to present the petition, but I

would like for them to stand in response to a petition, or maybe they can stand

on a point of order, and tell me - the Member for St. Barbe and the Member for

The Straits & White Bay North - if they support the people in the area and

if they would push the Premier to strike an all-party committee so that we could

all go up there and sit down while there are still people on the Northern

Peninsula to sit down and speak with.

Mr. Speaker, thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions.

The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the constituents in the

District of Grand Bank, and I guess, on behalf of all the people of the Burin

Peninsula, when you consider what is happening with the closure of the FPI plant

in Fortune to date, and of course a significant reduction in the workforce at

the plant in Marystown.

The prayer of this petition is:

WHEREAS the people of the District of Grand Bank primarily depend on the

fishery for their livelihood and prosperity;

WHEREAS these same people have an historic attachment that dates back

hundreds of years to this renewable resource;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to recognize and respect the importance of the fishing

industry to the area, and to take whatever action necessary to ensure that the

quotas traditionally processed by Fisheries Products International for this area

remain within the region for the benefit of the people and their communities.

Mr. Speaker, this petition I have been presenting now for the last couple of

weeks has been signed by people, not only those who worked at the plant in

Fortune but by many members of the community and the businesses of course,

because they are all impacted by this callous action of FPI to close the plant

in Fortune.

What we are seeing here today, of course, are many, many people having to

leave the community and move away. Whether they are moving to Northern BC, to

Alberta, to Ontario, New Brunswick or P.E.I., they are having to leave because,

of course, they have to provide for their families. What they are asking the

government to do is to put a stop to this exodus, and the only way that can

happen is if the government would do whatever it can to ensure that the quotas

traditionally processed in Fortune continue to be processed there. Whether that

is by FPI, by the Barry Group of Companies, any other interested party, or Cooke

Aquaculture, you know the people who worked at that plant really don't care,

as long as there is employment for them. It is their right, it is their quota.

I remember what the federal Minister of Fisheries said: The fish belong to

the people. It is a common resource, it doesn't belong to a company. The

company has it so that they can utilize it for the benefit of the people who

live in the communities. There should be no reason why this government cannot

get in touch with the federal Minister of Fisheries and make that happen. These

quotas are renewed on an annual basis by large. All the federal minister needs

to do is say: Sorry, FPI, if you are not going to process that quota in Fortune

that was traditionally processed in Fortune, then you no longer have it. It is

going to be processed in Fortune by whomever takes responsibility for that

particular facility.

That is what the prayer of this petition is all about. It is signed by

hundreds of people who are being impacted so drastically by the actions of FPI

and the callous way in which they just terminated their employment at the plant

in Fortune. What they are saying is, make that quota available - whether it is

to Cooke Aquaculture, who has indicated that for them to even consider going to

Fortune, they would want a quota; whether it is a Barry Group of Companies;

whether it is the Penny Group of Companies. They really do not care, but they

want to go to work and they want to work in Newfoundland and Labrador. They do

not want to have to uproot and go to some other part of this country where they

know no one, where it will cost them more to live, where they will not have any

kind of medical insurance to cover the cost of their medications and, in some

respects, that could be $200 and $300. Do you know what they have done? They

have done the math, and they have determined that what it would cost them to

move away, to go to work, and look at the mortgage payments they have back home

- in some cases, look at the cost of medications - that they would be better off

on social assistance. I can tell you that these are very proud, hard-working

individuals. The last thing they want to do -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS FOOTE: Leave, Mr. Speaker, to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been requested.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

And I do so because of the importance of this particular petition and the

paramount importance to the people who are impacted by the decision of FPI, and

why it is so important that the government do everything it can, whether they do

it by amending the FPI Act or whether they do it by enforcing the FPI Act as it

is today, or whether they do it by talking to their federal counterpart,

Minister Hearn, and saying this must happen and this must be done in the best

interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and, in this case, in the

interest of the people on the Burin Peninsula.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise to present a petition on behalf of the residents of my district in

support of the community of Williams Harbour.

Mr. Speaker, Williams Harbour is one of the communities in my district that

is not connected to the main highway that runs through the Southern Coast of

Labrador. In fact, they are only about twenty kilometres from this highway. At

an estimated cost to government of about $5.5 million, they can build a road to

this community. The previous government committed to do this

section of highway

and, actually, completed the environmental assessment work on it, completed the

engineering and routing work on it and was ready to move to tender a contract,

but the current government cancelled that when they took office and, instead,

opted to do an economic assessment on whether it was economically feasible to

connect the community of Williams Harbour to the main highway.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not have to tell any members in this House of Assembly

that there are a lot of roads built in this Province, and paved in this

Province, that were never economically viable or economically feasible to do,

but it was done to improve the standard of living of the people who live in

those communities. That is the whole purpose of this community having a road as

well, so that they can access nearby communities, like Charlottetown and Port

Hope Simpson, where they currently have to go for medical services and for other

services that are essential to them.

In the past year, actually in the past three years, we have been seeing a

real transition in the climate in that part of Labrador. In previous years, you

would have been able to get off the island of Williams Harbour to the mainland

for about three to four months out of the year just by snowmobile. This year,

Mr. Speaker, they got off the island once by snowmobile. The other attempt that

was made, two people went through the ice and nearly lost their lives. This is a

critical situation and everyday that I sit in this Legislature and listen to the

Minister of Transportation brag about his $66 million that he is putting into

road work this year, and knowing that he refuses to build a highway to this

community is absolutely appalling, Mr. Speaker. What is more appalling is

knowing that the $66 million he boasts about, $23 million of that is coming

directly out of the pockets of taxpayers in this Province because of the new

fees and taxes that the government implemented in 2004. We also know that a good

portion and a good chunk of the money that he brags about spending everyday is

also coming from layoffs of over 100 workers in the Department of Transportation

every summer and from the closure of depots around this Province.

Mr. Speaker, it absolutely sickens me every time I hear that, knowing that

the people in this community have to come on their knees begging to this

government that they have a road access. In this day and age it is not

necessary, Mr. Speaker, for them to have to do this.

I would like to invite the Minister of Transportation - as I have done on

many occasions when I stood in this House to represent the people of Williams

Harbour - to go to this community, to meet with these people, to see firsthand

how little distance there is -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS JONES: May I just have a moment to clue up?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been requested and leave has been granted.

MS JONES: Thank you very much.

I really would like for the minister to go to this community, to meet with

the people in this community and get a real understanding of how important it is

for them to have a road connection. To know that it can be done for just $5

million, I cannot see why the government, with a surplus budget out there

everyday spending money in this Province on things that may or may not be able

to wait, but on things that have no other priority anymore than the issue that I

have raised today on behalf of the people of this community in Labrador.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Orders of the Day.

MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Order 5,

An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act, Bill 26,

second reading.

I think the Minister of Justice and Attorney General is putting forward that.

MS THISTLE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been called by the Member for Grand

Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: I do not know if the Government House Leader saw me or not,

but I was standing to make a petition at that time. I wonder, could I have leave

to do so?

MR. SPEAKER: The Standing Orders indicate that the Government House

Leader can, at any time, stand after a petition is presented and call the Orders

of the Day. Then the Chair responds to the Government House Leader, and that is

what happened in today's session.

The Chair would seek some direction. I did not note the number of the bill

that had been called.

AN HON. MEMBER: Bill 26.

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 26, second reading of

An Act To Amend the Public

Utilities Act. It is moved and seconded that this bill now be read a second

time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend the Public Utilities

Act." (Bill 26)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased this afternoon to introduce Bill 26, which is entitled

An Act To

Amend The Public Utilities Act of this Province.

These amendments will allow new full-time commissioners to be appointed to

the board for a ten year term, instead of the current term of appointment to age

seventy. It will also establish basic qualified standards for commissioners to

ensure a dedicated and professional team to fulfill the boards very important

regulatory functions. It will help streamline the operations of the board,

contributing to greater regulatory efficiencies and cost savings, ultimately, to

consumers.

Mr. Speaker, the Public Utilities Board is an independent quasi-judicial

regulatory tribunal and it regulates electric utilities, both Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro as well as Newfoundland Power. It supervises insurances rates for

some fifty-five registered automobile insurance companies that operate

throughout the Province, as well as other sundry regulatory responsibilities,

including limited regulation of motor carrier activities, including trans-Island

bus service and ambulance operations.

The board also conducts hearings and does expropriation requests by

government. So, it not only deals with utilities, it also deals with some other

regulatory matters and, in fact, in other provinces, the Public Utilities Board

is, in fact, referred to as a Regulatory and Appeals Board.

In 2004, Mr. Speaker, the board was assigned responsibilities for the former

Petroleum Products Pricing Commission which is located, as hon. members know, in

the Town of Grand Falls-Windsor. The members of the board are appointed by the

Lieutenant-Governor in Council, and the board consists of three full-time

commissioners and up to six part-time commissioners. Two of the three full-time

commissioner positions are currently occupied,

whereas five of the six part-time

commissioners have their three-year term set to expire in May, 2006, with the

other expiring in August of this year.

Now represents an opportune time, Mr. Speaker, to address needed changes in

the governance of the board. This particular bill will provide for the

establishment of a fourth full-time commissioner, and this position will replace

the entire complement of up to six part-time commissioners in the existing

legislation.

This amendment will allow for a board consisting of full-time members only,

who will have the ability to more efficiently respond to the board's

regulatory obligations while, at the same time, saving regulated industries and

consumers about $150,000 in regulatory costs. This will result in the work of

the board being conducted in a streamlined and a timely manner by a team of

dedicated and appropriately trained commissioners who, in turn, will be in a

position to exercise their regulatory judgement with continuity and consistency.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, this bill will enshrine in the act the

establishment of basic qualifying standards for board commissioners. The board

maintains regulatory responsibilities involving three key commodities that are

consumed by the citizens of this Province, namely: electricity, automobile

insurance and petroleum products. The decisions of the board are of fundamental

importance to both regulated enterprises and, even more importantly, to the

consumers of Newfoundland and Labrador.

These companies, Mr. Speaker, rely on sound regulation by the board to enable

their businesses to flourish and, in certain instances, compete for capital in

the money markets of the world. For these reasons, Mr. Speaker, board

commissioners require a basic skill set combining expertise either in the law,

in finance, in accounting, in engineering, in technical skills or business.

Commissioners must also subscribe to a regiment of training and development

in the areas of administrative law, operating fundamentals in each of the

industries that are regulated, utility ratemaking, actuarial analysis, cost of

capital, cost of service, and other regulatory methodologies. Appeals of board

orders are made to the Province's Supreme Court.

Mr. Speaker, it is with these factors in mind that we must ensure continued

appointments of qualified commissioners to our Public Utilities Board, and this

bill speaks to that.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, the statutory appointments of a full-time commissioner

to age seventy is no longer considered a particular requirement for these

positions. Appointments to a ten-year term with a renewable option will offer

greater flexibility while maintaining the independence of the board.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, these changes will add to other actions taken by the

board itself in recent years toward reducing regulatory costs. I look forward to

this trend continuing, whereby the board is able to generate regulatory savings

to the benefit of consumers in its regulated industries while, at the same time,

enhancing regulatory performance.

Mr. Speaker, before I sit down, I want to take this opportunity to thank the

current members of the board for the services that they have been rendering and

have rendered to the Province. Mr. Speaker, the commissioner, Mr. Robert

Noseworthy, who I believe will retire later this year. Ms Darlene Whalen is the

vice-chair and is a full-time commissioner. There is a third full-time

commissioner position which was previously held by Raymond Pollett of Corner

Brook, the Mayor of Corner Brook. Mr. Pollett retired some time ago, when he

reached the mandatory retirement age. There will be, if the House of Assembly in

its wisdom deems it feasible to pass these amendments, there will be a fourth

full-time commissioner.

The five part-time commissioners will retire, and on behalf of the government

I would like to express our appreciation to them for the services they performed

to the board and to the Province. Mr. John William Finn has served three,

three-year terms, a nine-year term, as a part-time commissioner. Mr. Gerard

Martin of Corner Brook has also served for nine years; three, three-year terms.

Mr. Don Powell, an accountant of Stephenville, has been a part-time commissioner

and he has served two three-year terms. Mr. Fred Saunders, a commissioner from

Pleasantville, has also served for nine years; three, three-year terms. Mr.

Gordon Seabright, a former Judge of the Provincial Court of Newfoundland and

Labrador, will also retire as a part-time commissioner, as will Mr. Walter

Vincent, an accountant of the City of Corner Brook, who has served one

three-year term.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Province, and let me say on behalf of the

board, we express our appreciation to the people who have acted as

commissioners. We appreciate their services to the Province and to the board.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further debate on Bill 26?

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to have a few words with regard to Bill 26,

An Act To Amend The Public

Utilities Act.

For those people who do not know what this act does, it is the legislation

which governs what we know as the Public Utilities Board in the Province. That

is the board that regulates insurance rates, that regulates Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro rates, and, I think - do they regulate petroleum products now?

MR. REID: Yes.

MS JONES: Petroleum products as well. So, when you hear of gas prices

going up, or diesel prices going up, quite often it is regulated by this very

board that is governed by this act. The same thing with insurance in the

Province, and the same applies to Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro customers.

Let me tell you, over the years I have had a great deal of experience in

dealing with the Public Utilities Board, and not by choice but because I have

had to. On three particular times I have to go before this particular board and

commission on behalf of my constituents, when Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro

was pushing for rate increases for consumers to ensure that their electricity

bills went up and not down. So I am quite familiar with how they operate, and

the work that they do.

What this act is doing today, Mr. Speaker, is actually replacing the

part-time members on the board with another full-time member, as I understand

from the minister. More so than that, it is giving government the opportunity to

appoint four members to form the Utilities Board for a period of up to ten

years, with an opportunity to renew for a second term of another ten years,

which is a career, in my mind, twenty years of serving on a board appointed by

the government.

Mr. Speaker, I asked the minister, when he was standing, to tell us how much

these people are paid, because I tend to forget now, but I think it is a pretty

handsome amount of money that comes attached to this particular job. I certainly

remember some discussions about it in the media back a few years ago when there

were some board members dismissed who were unpleasant and filed through the

courts for remuneration of pay, that there were hefty amounts that were paid out

at that time.

MR. HARRIS: Seven hundred thousand dollars.

MS JONES: My colleague, the Leader of the NDP, reminds me that it was

probably about $700,000.

I would like to know what the salaries are that are attached to these ten-

and potentially twenty-year jobs appointed by the government. Mr. Speaker, I can

tell you, while they may do some good work, that is some pretty long-term

business and certainly shores up a career for certain people.

Let's talk about the work that these individuals, highly paid individuals

serving at the wishes of the government, will do in our Province. As I started

out talking about Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, whenever Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro wants to increase the rates to consumers in the Province, how

much you pay for your light, your heat and so on, they go to this board and they

file an application to have an increase. It is not just a simple application,

Mr. Speaker. It is an application that comes with compiled documents, research,

data, and everything else. Then this board undertakes to review all of this

information. The information is not just passed in over a desk to the Public

Utilities Board. In fact, Mr. Speaker, there are submissions by lawyers,

accountants, financial advisers, administrators, and all the rest of it,

vice-presidents, presidents, and everybody in the corporation. This is the kind

of information that the Utilities Board would then take and digest.

What does the consumer do, Mr. Speaker? The consumer, the individual who

lives out there, paying $200 a month for light and heat in their house, or

whatever the case may be, they have to fight to make sure that these rates are

not increased. Mr. Speaker, that can be a very intimidating process for some of

them. I know, as I said, I have been through it three times. You are walking

into a panel of public utilities people appointed by the government, who are

there to listen. You are walking in, Mr. Speaker, and you are trying to provide

a case on behalf of yourself, on behalf of your community, or on behalf of your

district, to try and stop Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro from getting this rate

increase. The first thing that you are confronted with is not just all the

experts of the Utilities Board, the people that they have the authority under

the act to pay out big money and contract for advice - financial advisors and

lawyers and accountants and all these people - then you have, on this side of

the room, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro with about eight or ten or twenty

experts sitting there ready to testify against every word that comes out of your

mouth. Mr. Speaker, that is a very intimidating process for any consumer in this

Province who wants to go out and file an application to have their electricity

rates not increased. I really believe that most members would agree with me that

that is the case.

Mr. Speaker, what I would like to see is more advocacy for these consumers.

Now, I understand that there is a Consumer Advocate in the Province appointed

and paid for by the government, and maybe they could tell me how much this

individual is paid. Up until three and a half minutes ago I didn't know there

was one. I had to ask my colleague, the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, if we

still have a Consumer Advocate, because I haven't heard who he is, I have

never heard him in the media, I have never been approached by him as a member

who represents the majority of rural isolated customers in the Province that is

governed by Hydro; never heard tell of him. I will say this to the hon.

minister, that when the previous Consumer Advocate was there, Dennis Browne, I

can guarantee you that I had many dealings with him. For every hearing that I

ever went before the Public Utilities Board, he was the one who was sitting down

with me, preparing me, Mr. Speaker, to meet the team of lawyers and accountants

and experts who were going to be brought in by Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro.

He was the one who did the work, came up to Labrador and sat down with the

members and the mayors in the communities in my district, to help them prepare

to go before the Public Utilities Board. Today, I had to turn and ask my

colleague if we still have one because I have no idea who he is, where he is or

what he is doing. I have not heard a Consumer Advocate out there in the Province

in the last twelve months.

MR. E. BYRNE: He has been out (inaudible) quite a bit.

MS JONES: Is that right? The Government House Leader tells me he has been

out quite a bit. He will have to refresh my memory and tell me the issues he has

been out there on, because I have certainly not come across him or had any

involvement with him whatsoever.

What I would have liked to see, Mr. Speaker, is that while you are

fine-tuning the Public Utilities Board in the Province and while you are making

sure that their positions are going to be secure for, in some cases, up to

twenty years at wonderful remunerations, I would also like to see more effort

being put into having consumer advocates available to people in the Province who

need help in preparing to go before the Public Utilities Board to make their

case, whether it is on gas prices, whether it is on car insurance rates, housing

insurance rates, whether it is on the price of electricity, or whatever the case

may be, Mr. Speaker. That is where I would like to see a more concentrated

effort being made.

Now, the other question, Mr. Speaker, that I am going to ask is that, in

appointing this Public Utilities Board - of course, the act outlines that these

people will have expertise in law, in engineering, in accountancy or finance.

Now, there are four positions. I am assuming that there is going to be one from

each faculty here, probably, appointed to the Public Utilities Board. While I

have no problem with the academic backgrounds that are outlined here, I want to

ensure that we are not going to have four people sitting on this board who are

all from downtown St. John's, because that would be a concern for me.

The Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi grunts really loud in his seat because

he is representing the wonderful people of downtown St. John's. But, I want to

make clear, that there are different issues that face different parts of this

Province. While there might be a regulatory uniform rate on electricity that

goes right across the Province on a grid system, it is not always the case for

people who are on rural isolated diesel systems. This is my concern, because I

represent a district in this Province today that pays the highest electricity

rates of anywhere else in Newfoundland and Labrador and, I do not know, but

probably in Atlantic Canada. The minister of energy would probably know that,

but I would beg to say that they are probably the highest in Atlantic Canada.

Mr. Speaker, the business community in my district - you talk about fostering

business development - in and of itself, pays almost three times more, in some

cases, for electricity to service their companies than they do in other parts of

the Province. So, I want to make sure that in appointing a Public Utilities

Board, that they are going to be a board that can grasp what the issues are that

are facing other regions of the Province, I say to the minister, and be able to

sit and listen, listen with some understanding to people when they are coming

before this utilities board with their issues and their concerns and not just

with understanding, but also with compassion for the situation that they find

themselves in. I know that these decisions, as to who will sit on this board,

are going to be at the discretion of the minister. I want to just let him know

what my view is and to ensure that those things are taken into consideration

when they are being appointed.

Mr. Speaker, I know from past experiences, as I said, I went before this

board on three different times and I guess over the period of the last twelve

years - I think it was twelve years ago I first approached them - I have gotten

to know some of these members over a period of time and some in other capacities

who actually ended up on the Public Utilities Board. I have to say, not every

time did I win the case I went there with, but on occasion I did. I really

believe that I won the case on behalf of my constituents, not because I was such

a great member - which I am, I say to the minister - but because the people I

was presenting to had an understanding of where I was coming from and of the

region that I represented. They could listen with compassion and understanding.

They could make a decision weighing out, not just what was being said by the

legal team, the financial team, and the accounting firms that were seconded by

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, but also be able to listen and understand the

viewpoints that I brought forward on behalf of my constituents and my

communities, and the mayors themselves that brought forward. That was very

important in that process, I say to the minister.

I think that in doing this - I do not have a problem with the number of

people on the board. I do not have a problem that the board is going from nine

people to four people. That is not the issue for me, Mr. Speaker. The real issue

in this is the caliber of people you have there, the wealth of knowledge and

understanding they bring to the job, and their ability to be able to do it and

to do it fairly on behalf of the people. That is my main concern. I just wanted

to make sure that I pointed that out to the minister.

Now, I talked about hydro rates. Let's talk about gas prices for a moment

because I did write the Petroleum Pricing Commission back about a year ago,

putting forward a position for them to review. Because, as you know, my

district, as well, has the highest gas prices in the Province. I guess the

further away you get from the capital city sometimes the more you pay for the

things that you need in life. Anyway, my district, as well, pays some of the

highest gasoline prices, highest diesel prices in the Province. The only one

paying any higher than me, and in some cases equivalent to some of my

communities, would be my colleague for Torngat Mountains.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, last year with the continuous surging upward in gas

prices in the Province we went extremely high. I am trying to think, I think we

probably went to $1.50 or $1.45 at one point in terms of gas prices, and maybe

even higher than that because for some reason I think in some communities where

it is divided into zones now, it even went up to $1.61. Anyway, at that time, I

do not have to tell anyone, that it was definitely very difficult and a great

deal of hardship for people in that area to be able to afford those prices for

one thing. So, I wrote to the Petroleum Pricing Commission, because although the

gas prices are now regulated, they are still regulated based on zones. Quite

often I cannot determine how the zonal prices are differentiated because you

will have a zone here and you will have a zone there, and you could have a gas

price that varies by six cents to eight cents a litre, which makes absolutely no

sense to me because when you know the regions I am talking about, when you know

the distance between them, when you know where the oil tanker lands and fuels

the tanks and offloads the fuel, you cannot really make any basis or any guess

in terms of what the differential is.

So, Mr. Speaker, this was a problem for me because in my district I have

three zones - three zones for gasoline and diesel regulation in my district.

Now, keep in mind that there are only 6,000 people and we are under three

different pricing regimes for gas price regulation. I can never understand why

you can go an hour down the road and all of a sudden your gas prices just went

up by eight cents a litre. So it is a little bit amazing to me. I have never

been able to find it out.

I wrote to the Petroleum Pricing Commission, which I understand - and the

minister can nod and tell me - would be under the Public Utilities Board. He

says yes it is. I wrote to them and I asked them to look at regulating gas

prices in the Province. So it does not matter if you live in Nain or if you live

in Burgeo or Corner Brook or St. John's, that we should have a regulatory

regime of gas pricing in the Province. So, really, it would be more like a

uniform rate, and the basis for my argument was this. If you look at how public

utilities are regulated, you look at everyone on a grid system in Newfoundland

and Labrador, they are on a uniform rate so it does not matter if I am getting

electricity into my home in Bird Cove, in Colliers, or in Mount Pearl, I am

paying the same price, Mr. Speaker, because it is a uniform regulatory price set

out that covers the whole Province that is under a grid system, making it fair

and equal for everyone.

The same thing happens with rural isolated customers. There are twenty-seven

rural isolated connections in the Province. Fifteen of them are in Labrador. Mr.

Speaker, just because you are in Nain, or if you are in - Burgeo, now, is on the

grid so it would be Grey River, I guess, or one of those communities - LaPoile,

it does not matter, you are still at the same rate.

Now, while it might cost $15 million a year to the government to subsidize

the customers in my district and only cost $5 million a year to subsidize the

customers on the Southwest Coast of Newfoundland, they still do it and they

still provide a uniformed regulatory rate because the government recognized, and

Hydro recognized, that there is an affordability issue here and that they have

to make it electricity that is affordable to the consumer so they regulate it.

The same concept I asked for with gas prices, I say to the minister.

What I asked the Petroleum Pricing Commission to do was this: Look at the gas

price regulation across the Province. Look at what you can do to bring a uniform

rate to it. I am not asking to increase gas prices in the City of St. John's

to subsidize gas prices in Nain, but what I am asking for is this: Look at a

regulatory regime that takes in most of the Province. Look at what the

additional cost to government is going to be to provide the same fuel prices in

other regions of the Province.

So, if the subsidy at the end of the day to the government happens to be

about $15 million a year to bring in a - and I am just hauling numbers out of

the air. I don't want anybody to quote me on this. I am giving a very vague

example, but if it was to cost government $15 million a year to bring in that

subsidization and to bring in and implement a uniformed gas rate in the

Province, man! that would take such a burden off so many consumers in some many

different regions of this Province that it would be unbelievable.

Not only that, Mr. Speaker, it would be a catalyst for other things to

happen, for other development, for the movement of people, and those things.

With that, Mr. Speaker, would come additional revenues to the government. Not

only that; if it was uniform and regulated as a uniform rate on petroleum

products right across the Province, then what potentially could happen is that

the sales for the consumption of gasoline may indeed increase and the government's

taxes would increase as well. So, at the end of the day, the subsidy that they

would pay out, they could very well end up taking it in. If the Minister of

Finance was listening, I am sure he would have all of that calculated for me now

and could give me an answer.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I think there is a way that can be done. I wrote the

Petroleum Pricing Commission, and this is what disappointed me most of all.

Initially, when I wrote to the Petroleum Pricing Commission and made that

submission, they were out asking for the public to provide submissions on gas

prices and diesel price regulation in the Province. I was one of the people who

provided a submission. I do not know who the other people were. I am sure there

were many. I never received a response, Mr. Speaker, never received a response.

A phone call, one day, I made to their office to ensure that they had

received my submission. They said, yes, indeed they did. I said: When will I

have an opportunity to come before the Petroleum Commission, or to have you come

in my district and hold a hearing?

The other thing, at the time, they were advertising that they were going to

hold public hearings around the Province. The minister nods, because he

remembers that. They were asking for submissions, and they were going to hold

public hearings.

I never, ever, got acknowledgment after that for my submission. I never,

ever, got a public hearing, and that disappointed me. It disappointed me,

because I thought the Petroleum Pricing Commission that was put in place by the

government, paid for by taxpayers' money, were sincere about the job that they

were given to do. I, as one member, have certainly felt very let down. They did

get my letter, because I called to check, to make sure. I called to make sure. I

honestly thought that they were going to come into my district and hold a public

hearing.

I am not saying that uniform petroleum rates being regulated in the Province

is going to be a song and dance that everyone is going to want to partake in.

There might not be any support for it outside of areas like mine, and in

Northern Labrador and on the Southwest Coast of the Island and on the Northern

Peninsula and places that pay a whole lot more for petroleum products. There may

not be much support for it outside of that, but I do not know that. I do not

know that, because I never had the opportunity to go before the Petroleum

Pricing Commission to express to them, in person, the plan that I was asking

them to research and to assess and to look at on behalf of the consumers in the

Province to see if it would work.

Furthermore to that, Mr. Speaker, at that time that they committed to come

into my district, I actually told people in my district, told mayors and

communities, when I met with them, that the Petroleum Pricing Commission was

going to be holding hearings around the Province - in fact, I do not know if

they ever held either hearing; I was never, ever, notified - and that they were

going to come into Southern Labrador and they would hold a hearing, but I never

heard anything about it after. I do not know, actually, from that day to this,

if there was ever a public hearing held on petroleum pricing in this Province.

What I would say to the minister is that it needs to be held. It needs to be

held, because when you look at how gas prices are fluctuating in the market

today, rising, rising, rising, dropping a little ways and rising again - as they

say, one step forward and two steps backwards. Well, that is kind of like we are

with oil price regulation right now.

I think there should be public hearings held on pricing of petroleum products

in the Province, and I really do believe it should be held, especially in areas

like mine, where people have some real concerns. I am not saying that it is not

a concern everywhere in the Province, because I firmly do believe that is the

case. I think it is an issue for a lot of people, and I think if the Petroleum

Pricing Commission still exists and is there to do a job, that should be a very

fundamental part of their job, listening and dialoguing with consumers and the

people of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, I do not know. Maybe this new Public Utilities Board, when they

are established, will have a role of some sort in doing this. I do not know.

Maybe they are the group that are supposed to mandate groups like the Petroleum

Pricing Commission. I do not know. Maybe they are, but I guess we will have to

wait and see.

Those are some suggestions that I wanted to make and, I guess, to say that at

this time we are going to be going before this new Public Utilities Board again

very soon; because, as you know, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro have now

applied again to have a rate increase for all consumers of Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro, I think, in the Province. It does not matter where you live.

They have presently filed an application to the Public Utilities Board again for

a rate increase. I am not sure of the amount, what the amount is. Do you

remember, Jack?

MR. HARRIS: No.

MS JONES: No, but there was a certain increase that they have applied

for. As a result of it, I guess there are going to be a lot of us going back to

this new Public Utilities Board again to fight our case on behalf of the

consumers and the constituents that we represent. While I do not know the amount

of the increase that Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro has asked for, I do know

that it is not affordable to many consumers in this Province, and least of all

to the people in my district.

As I said earlier, right now we have a business community in my district that

is looking at paying almost twenty cents a kilowatt hour for electricity. Not

only are they paying way beyond their means to be able to afford this energy,

but there is also not an availability of power that they demand. That is

unfortunate, Mr. Speaker. It is really hard to create industry under those

circumstances. I can just give you a couple of examples.

Back in 1998-1999 we were putting a shrimp plant in my district - the only

shrimp plant, I say, that is in Labrador. We built it in the community of

Charlottetown. When the company decided to invest $10 million into this plant

there was no electricity to be able to source this plant. The first thing the

government of the day had to do was go out and make a commitment to invest

almost $3 million to upgrade the diesel plant and the electrical lines in the

community to provide power to this plant. Now, if the company had to provide

that electricity themselves at that price, there would be no shrimp plant in

Labrador now. There would be neither one. The only way that this could be done

and be feasible for the company to make the investment and for us, as

communities to have the industry, would be for government to pay the money to

build the power lines and to upgrade the diesel plant. That is just one example,

Mr. Speaker.

Let me give you another example in my district. When you talk about growing

the economy in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, electricity and transportation

are really the key. Let me tell you about another community, Port Hope Simpson.

Port Hope Simpson is a community where we have always had a wood industry for a

number of years, as the Minister of Natural Resources would know and is quite

familiar with, but for many years we did not get into secondary production. In

the last five, six years we have moved in that area in a major way. Do you know

what the first problem was we had to deal with? It was not getting a business to

invest the money, it was not getting a company to come in and set up all the

mill equipment and all that was required to have a secondary production of wood

in this community, it was delivering power to the sawmills and to the production

company. Delivering the electricity. No three phase power in the community. The

lines had to be upgraded. Three phase power had to be installed. The generators

had to be revamped. Some were taken out, new generators were put in. I do not

remember the exact cost of all the work that was done there but you can go back

through the records, it was probably about $1.5 million. If this company had to

go and pay to have this work done themselves, they would not be there today.

They would not be able to be there because they would not be able to afford to

be there.

When you are talking about Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro going to the

Public Utilities Board looking for further increases in hydro rates, Mr.

Speaker, these are the kinds of real issues that exist that have to be dealt

with. These companies, not only would they not be there if they had to install

the infrastructure, I was proud to be a part of a government who was prepared to

make those investments and put that infrastructure there to create these jobs in

communities in my district. But, still today, that sawmill, Mr. Speaker, does

not have the supply of electricity that it needs. When there is certain

equipment they have to put on, they have to make a call to the hydro plant so

they can shut down so many residential customers in the community to allow this

sawmill operator to operate this piece of equipment.

That is the kind of climate in which we have to do business and then you get

hydro coming back and wanting them to pay more money when they are already

paying almost twenty cents a kilowatt hour for power. Three times what

businesses in other areas of the Province would be paying to provide the same

commodity, to do the same kind of business, to create the same kind of jobs. Mr.

Speaker, there is no fairness in that and do not ever expect me to understand or

be sympathetic to Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro when they come with their hand

out looking for increases in hydro rates, because I have a district that can

write the book on the trouble with having availability, accessability and

affordability to electricity in this Province. They will get no sympathy from

me. They are not the only company in this Province that has to deal with

increasing fuel prices or different shifting changes in the market. They are not

the only company that has to deal with all of this, Mr. Speaker. But, having

said that, in dealing with increased fuel prices in Newfoundland and Labrador

Hydro, they have still turned a profit of over $50 million last year, I say to

the minister. Maybe he can give me the full amount when he stands up because I

cannot remember, but I know the profit they turned was well over $50 million. I

read it just a couple of day ago in one of their reports that they had put out,

and of course it was in the Budget as well.

So, I do not know where the real financial drain on Newfoundland and Labrador

Hydro is coming from that they have to be out there again tormenting the lives

of the people who have already expended every cent they have, to try and get

more money, squeeze more money out of them for the bit of electricity they are

burning to keep their houses going. They will get no sympathy from me on that

particular situation, I can guarantee you, because we certainly do not see the

wage rates increasing with fuel prices. So there is not a lot more disposable

income around to satisfy Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro's new aggressive

agenda that they are creating over there or anything of that sort.

Mr. Speaker, these are important issues and they are important issues that

will fall under the regime of the Public Utilities Board, and that is why -

getting back to my initial point that I started off with. That is why it is so

important to have the right caliber of people sitting on this particular

commission, because they are going to make decisions - believe it or not, they

are going to make decisions that will either be able to allow for development

and industry to occur in different regions of the Province or they will make

this decision to ensure that it is stagnant. That is a very critical point, Mr.

Speaker, very critical. Because given the examples that I just outlined for my

hon. colleagues here in the Legislature today of the things that I have dealt

with when it comes to providing electricity for industry development in one

rural district in this Province, any additional increases in rates, you know, is

not going to stimulate development there. It is not going to stimulate new

opportunity. I think the worst thing that can happen right now would be to make

it even more cumbersome than it is, put more pressure on these companies than is

already on them, because they are dealing with a lot of other issues. These

companies, too, are dealing with increased gas prices, but they are dealing with

a lot of other issues. They are dealing with shifting markets, out-migration,

and all of those things in their businesses as well, so their level of

profitability is not going up. In most cases, it is going down. Therefore, it is

even a more difficult time for them.

Mr. Speaker, this Public Utilities Board has a huge responsibility. I am a

little bit washy on the fact that there are going to probably have an

opportunity to sit there for twenty years. I think that is a little bit of a -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS JONES: Pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS JONES: Anyway, Mr. Speaker, for some four people in the Province who

could end up having a twenty-year career with the Public Utilities Board, I just

hope they have some understanding for what the people in the Province are going

through every time they get a big company, whether it is an oil company or a

utility company, coming to them looking for increasing petroleum products prices

or increasing hydro rates. I hope that they will be able to have an

understanding of how these issues affect ordinary people every day in our

Province.

Mr. Speaker, other than that, I do not have a problem with it. I have made my

comments with regard to the consumer advocate. I think there should be more work

done by the consumer advocate with individuals, getting them ready and preparing

them to go to the Public Utilities Board, because quite often that is the only

resource that many of those people have. If you are in a municipality where you

have 300 people and your total tax base is $100,000 for the year and you can

only afford to have a part-time maintenance person and a part-time town clerk,

how can you afford to retain expert advice to try and stop Newfoundland and

Labrador Hydro from increasing the hydro rates to the people in your community?

You cannot do it. The resources are just not there. That is why the consumer

advocate appointed and paid for by the government has to be out there working

with these communities, because that is the only expert advice that they have. I

really want to stress that.

It does not matter to me who the individual is, just as long as they are

available and they are accessible to provide the kind of information and the

kind of services that these communities are going to need. I know, in the last

round of Public Utilities Board hearings in Labrador, we went to Goose Bay, the

people in my district. There were, like, ten communities from my district that

participated in those presentations, and every one of them had the opportunity,

if they wanted to, to work with the consumer advocate to get ready for their

presentations and to be prepared for it. That is the job that needs to be done.

In fact, if we are going to keep seeing more applications for rate increases,

and continuous increases to petroleum products and things like this, we may even

have to look at increasing the resources that the consumer advocate has to do

the work that they do.

Excuse me, Mr. Speaker, I do not know how much time I have left.

MR. HARRIS: Unlimited time.

MS JONES: The Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi says I have unlimited

time, but somehow I significantly doubt that.

Mr. Speaker, there are other people who have comments they would like to make

on this bill, and I am sure that some of my own colleagues are probably going to

have other input that they would like to add.

I cannot stress how important it is to have the right caliber of people who

sit on this Public Utilities Board, because they make very important decisions,

and important decisions regarding the rates of electricity and petroleum and

insurance, but especially with electricity that affects whether our communities

can grow or become stagnant at the end of the day.

I have experienced it first-hand and I know what the difficulty is. When you

are talking about creating business opportunity in rural areas of this Province,

one of the major attractions is going to be energy, and whether it is affordable

and whether it is available in whatever shape or form, as long as it is

available and they can afford it. I think that and transportation, in my

experiences, have been the two major pieces that have to come together before

people are prepared to invest, especially in rural areas, but I am sure the case

is in every area. It does not matter where you are in the Province.

I think the job of these individuals is going to be a huge responsibility,

but a responsibility that will certainly, if decisions are not made in fairness

and in balance and with knowledge and consideration of the consumers they are

dealing with, the outcomes may not be as pleasant as we would hope, and we would

not want to see that.

Mr. Speaker, with that, I am going to conclude my comments and turn it over

to one of my colleagues who, I am sure, would like to add to this.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, not to interrupt the debate obviously, but I

did want to just move a few motions before we get into other people speaking to

Bill 26,

An Act To Amend The Public Utilities Act.

Motion 2, Mr. Speaker, to move, pursuant to Standing Order 47, that the

debate or further consideration on the resolution of Bill 6, respecting a

measure to impose taxes on tobacco, shall not be further adjourned and that

further consideration of any resolution or resolutions, clause or clauses,

section or sections,

schedule or schedules,

preamble or

preambles, title or

titles, or whatever else might be related to Bill 6, shall be the first business

of the Committee of the Whole on Ways ands Means and shall not be further

postponed.

I guess, we need to vote on that, Mr. Speaker, do we?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

We have all heard the motion as put forward by the Government House Leader.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

AN HON. MEMBER: Nay.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 3, pursuant to Standing Order 11, Mr. Speaker, that the House not

adjourn at 5:30 p.m. today.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The motion, as put forward by the Government House Leader.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

AN HON. MEMBER: Nay.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Motion 4, Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 11, that

the House not adjourn at 10:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER: We have all heard the motion as put forward by the

Government House Leader.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

AN HON. MEMBER: Nay.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is carried.

The hon. the Leader of the New Democratic Party.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to rise to speak at second reading on Bill 26,

An Act To Amend

The Public Utilities Act.

First of all, Mr. Speaker, I am speaking following the Member for

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair who expressed some concern that in making

appointments to the Public Utilities Board that they be all chosen from

downtown, St. John's.

MS JONES: I did say that, I said they shouldn't be.

MR. HARRIS: You said they shouldn't be. You said you were concerned

that they would be all chosen from downtown, St. John's.

Having been the representative for a large part of the residential area of

downtown, St. John's, I, first of all, have to come to the defence of those

people who reside there. Certainly when the government is looking for people

with expertise in law, engineering, accountancy or finance there will be plenty

of people to choose from, because the people of my district, Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi, not only those who live downtown but who live elsewhere in the district -

MS JONES: (Inaudible) Ed Hearn.

MR. HARRIS: Well, Ed Hearn has some relationship to my district. I think

he has an apartment in my district, although he resides in Labrador West, so

there is a lot of expertise in Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, but I agree with the

Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, that we should not have commissioners

that are only from one area. We should ensure that the people who are

representatives, whoever they happen to be, are knowledgeable of all areas of

the Province regardless of where they reside. I think it is probably a good

thing that some consideration is given in the legislation that the Cabinet, in

making appointments, consider the need of the board to have some expertise in

those areas.

Generally speaking, Mr. Speaker, this legislation is about the change in the

nature of the board at the PUB. We now have three full-time commissioners and a

number of part-time. I believe currently there is a provision for six part-time

commissioners and three full-time, and I guess the change from three to four,

and the elimination of part-time commissioners will probably provide for more

consistency amongst the members because there is a fairly high degree of

expertise and knowledge and experience required to do a good job as

commissioners.

First of all, before I get into my major portion of my speech today, I do

want to say that I am quite surprised and shocked, I might say, that the

Minister of Justice, two days after passage of the Human Rights Code and

elimination of discrimination against people who are over the age of nineteen

years of age, eliminating and getting rid of the prohibition of discrimination

against people on the basis of being sixty-five years of age, and eliminating

the upper-end discrimination, tables a bill and speaks in favour of a bill which

discriminates against people who reach the age of seventy years. That is found

in clause 3.

I say to the minister, I would have expected some consistency from the

government, and maybe he can explain how it is that clause 3 of this bill is

compatible with the new Human Rights Code that was passed a couple of days ago.

I know he was absent at the time, and we did our best to debate the bill in his

absence. He was absent on Her Majesty's service but, nevertheless, a bill was

passed saying that you cannot discriminate against people on the basis of age.

I believe our Human Rights Code says that where there is a conflict between

that act and other acts, the Human Rights Code applies, but that would certainly

be designed to deal with previous acts of the House of Assembly, and I hope that

this item of inconsistency can be addressed by the minister when he closes

debate on this subject, because clause 3 clearly says - I recognize, of course,

that it is only a transitional provision, and whether it would affect any

particular individual who now holds office or not, I am not aware. I do not know

the ages of the current full-time commissioners, but it does certainly allow, by

operation of the act, that those persons would ceas