Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 24 November 2005 (45th General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLV No. 36)

2005-11-24

Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)

Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 24 November 2005 (45th General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLV No. 36)

2005-11-24

Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)

November 24, 2005 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV

No. 36

The House met at 1: 30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

This afternoon we are very pleased to welcome to the public galleries twelve

students from the St. John's Learning Centre, with their instructor Ms Ann

Buckle.

Welcome to our House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Members' statements this afternoon are as follows: the

hon. the Member for the District of Trinity-Bay de Verde; the hon. the Member

for the District of Grand Bank; the hon. the Member for District of St. John's

Centre; the hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave; the hon. the

Member for the District of Humber Valley; and the hon. the Member for the

District of Labrador West.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for the District of Trinity-Bay de

Verde.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, last week, I attended a function at Baccalieu Collegiate in Old

Perlican for the launch of high-speed Internet that will connect thirty

communities in my district to the global economy. Approximately 6,500 residents,

including businesses, will be able to avail of this service.

Mr. Speaker, a world of opportunity has now unfolded. The implementation of

this high-speed Internet will enrich the educational experience of our students

and educators alike. As well, the marketing and trading opportunities and the

expansion of business ideas is limitless. The commercial potential that will be

provided for our business community is unimaginable.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the Eastern School Board District,

Persona, Industry Canada, and the Mariners Resource Opportunities Network Inc.

for sponsoring the advancement of broadband in my District of Trinity-Bay de

Verde.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I would like to quote Ms Gillian Lockyer, a Level

III student of Baccalieu Collegiate, who spoke of what this opportunity meant to

her. I feel that Gillian certainly described what this means to our area when

she said, "I am extremely grateful that rural areas of Newfoundland and

Labrador are getting benefits such as Broadband to expand our possibilities for

the future. I believe this is the beginning of something bigger than we have

ever imagined."

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to extend my congratulations to Staff

Cadet Ashley Tarrant of Lawn on being selected HMCS Acadia's new Chief of Sea

Operations this past summer.

The seventeen-year-old cadet from the Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Corps 237

Truxtun in Lawn was appointed to the position with a promotion to Chief Petty

Officer Second Class following an extensive interview and selection process.

As Chief of Sea Operations at HMCS Acadia, Canada's largest Sea Cadet

Training Centre located in Cornwallis, Nova Scotia, Chief Tarrant was

responsible for the day-to-day operations of the Sea Operations department and

for the supervision and administration of thirty staff cadets at the training

centre.

Chief Petty Officer Tarrant, presently the Coxswain of RCSCC237 Truxtun, is

the daughter of Maurice and Charmaine Tarrant of Lawn. Chief Petty Officer

Tarrant graduated Level III at Holy Name of Mary Academy in Lawn with honours

and is presently in her first year of studies at Memorial University of

Newfoundland.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating

Chief Petty Officer Tarrant and extend her best wishes in all future endeavours.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of St. John's Centre.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, I had the pleasure this past fall of

participating in the eighth anniversary of the Unveiling of the Merchant Navy

Memorial.

Each year, September 3, is recognized as Merchant Navy Veterans Day. The

monument is located at the main entrance to the Marine Institute on Ridge Road

and was erected to commemorate the men and women who lost their lives in World

War II. St. John's Harbour was the home port for naval vessels which provided

convoy protection on the North Atlantic. This port was a safe haven for torpedo

damaged ships. Crews from torpedoed ships of the Allied Merchant Navies were

landed here found a haven of rest until they returned to their home ports or

shipped out as crew on other ships.

Merchant Navies played a critical role in both World Wars, transporting war

materials, troops, fuel and ammunition throughout the world. The ships were

called on to assist in evacuation and troop landings. An estimated 60,000 Allied

Merchant Navy men and women lost their lives assuring a reliable flow of goods

across the Atlantic.

The Merchant Navy was a volunteer organization. Without uniforms to identify

them on shore, these crews did not enjoy the special treatment and respect that

uniformed officers could expect.

On Remembrance Day every year, we honour our war veterans and those who

sacrificed their lives. The Merchant Navy is seldom included in these services,

however, due in part to the non-military status of the Navy. It is time to

recognize the contribution made to the war by the Merchant Navy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this House today to recognize Mr. Philip Lundrigan of Spaniard's

Bay, who was named the recipient of the Glen Hillson Award for Excellence at the

general meeting of the Canadian Treatment Action Council in Moncton.

Canadian Treatment Action Council, the CTAC, is a national organization

serving the needs of people living with HIV/AIDS. CTAC promotes informed public

policy, public education, as well as awareness on issues that impact on access

to treatment and health care for people living with HIV/AIDS.

Mr. Lundrigan is a founding member of the CTAC . He served as Secretary of

the Board from 1996 to 2001 and is Vice-Chair of the Board from 2002 to 2005. As

the provincial representative to the CTAC Council for Newfoundland and Labrador,

Philip founded the Newfoundland and Labrador People with AIDS Network.

Mr. Speaker, Philip Lundrigan's outstanding contribution to improving the

health and lives of people with HIV/AIDS nationally is matched by his equally

important work at home here in Newfoundland and Labrador. This award has only

been received previously by the hon. Allan Rock.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating Mr. Philip Lundrigan, recipient of the Glen Hillson Award of

Excellence.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Humber Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge the accomplishments

of the students of Xavier Junior High in Deer Lake for their efforts in their

Clean and Green project. Their achievements received national attention in early

October when the town received the Maglin Youth Involvement Project Award

sponsored by the Communities in Bloom Program.

Xavier's schoolyard naturalization project received $7,000 in funding from

Clarica and involved over 250 students in constructing benches, flower and rock

gardens, and planting various trees and shrubs around the school grounds.

Encouraged by support from local businesses and the Deer Lake Community

Improvements Committee, students broadened their efforts beyond the schoolyard,

organizing initiatives such annual beach and town centre cleanups.

These young men and women offer a shining example of dedication to their

community and concern for their environment. I ask all members to join with me

in congratulating them for their tremendous accomplishments.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate teacher, Paul Smith and his Grade 7 Tech-Ed

Class at JRS Middle School in Wabush.

During National Bullying Awareness Week the students and Mr. Smith undertook

a project, from scratch, to make brilliant red stop signs with the main slogan:

Stop Bullying, on top with a message underneath. Some of the messages include:

Appreciate Goodness; Reach out to a Person in Need; Understand the Other Side;

and Be Nice to Someone.

Mr. Speaker, we hear all too often the problems many students face from

bullying, sometimes with tragic outcomes. It is certainly good to hear of

students and teachers dealing with this problem head on and in their own

environment.

Mr. Speaker, the signs will become permanent fixture's in the school by

being posted throughout the hallways as a constant reminder that JRS Middle

School is determined to be a bully-free zone where students respect each other.

This is important, Mr. Speaker, because when initiatives like this take place in

a school setting they tend to carry over to the outside school hours, improving

the social life for all students.

Mr. Speaker, every person - man, woman and child - has a right to a

bully-free environment. I ask all members of the House of Assembly to join me in

applauding the leadership of Mr. Paul Smith and his Grade 7 class at JRS and

wish the best to all students during this academic year.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Speaker would like to extend a welcome as well this

afternoon to some other visitors. I notice in looking around the public gallery,

to my left I see Mr. Scott Simms, the MP for Bonavista-Gander-Grand

Falls-Windsor. Welcome to our House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: In the Speaker's gallery this afternoon we have a very

special guest. I am pleased to welcome Ms Ruth Flowers, the interim Speaker for

the new District of Nunatsiavut. Ms Flowers is visiting our Assembly in

preparation for her new role with the new Inuit government. As some members

already know, the legislative capital of Nunatsiavut will be in Hopedale, while

the administrative capital will be in Nain. The new government and new assembly

assume their new roles on Thursday, December 1. We wish Ms Flowers, the new

Speaker, all the best in her position and I have assured her that all members of

this House and our professional staff will assist her in any manner we can.

Again, congratulations Ms Flowers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Ms Flowers is accompanied by Marilyn Butland, with Perry

& Butland Communications.

Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity today to inform hon.

members on the signing of a federal-provincial agreement that will bring major

investment into community infrastructure throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

This morning I was joined by Scott Simms, MP for Bonavista-Gander-Grand

Falls-Windsor and Wayne Ruth, President of the Newfoundland and Labrador

Federation of Municipalities to announce the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador

Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund Agreement. This agreement will introduce a

total of $84 million and will be a cost-shared initiative between the federal,

provincial and municipal governments. The provincial investment will be in a

range of $28 million to $35 million over the next four years.

In order for our communities to develop and prosper we must have reliable

infrastructure. The provincial, federal and municipal partnership demonstrated

by today's announcement speaks to a long-term commitment from all levels of

government. Our combined goal is to strengthen infrastructure throughout

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, reaching this agreement was not an easy process. The Government

of Newfoundland and Labrador insisted that program guidelines include water

system expansions and upgrades. We also had to negotiate changes to the draft

agreement that would give this government flexibility to assume part of the

municipal share of costs where warranted. Our insistence on these terms resulted

in a negotiation process that was lengthy and difficult but in the end a

tremendous success.

Municipalities will play a major role in the distribution of the funding

announced today. The Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Municipalities will

give strategic direction and identify priorities under this program.

Mr. Speaker, we are looking forward to working with municipalities as

government continues to do everything it can to guide communities towards

economic prosperity. We will continue to assist communities to identify and

implement long-term solutions.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the member for an advance copy of his statement.

Anytime that you have a joint arrangement, like you have here between the

provincial government, the federal government and the municipalities, for new

infrastructure in the Province, it is great. I had the opportunity myself to be

involved in some of these.

In the minister's statement it says over the four years, but I have a

backgrounder which says that it will run from the signing of the agreement and

will end on March 31, 2012. So, is it four or seven? If it is four, then

obviously there is a larger amount of money to be spent over the four-year

period, but if it is seven then it is somewhat less. Having said that, any new

dollars that go into the Province, into the municipalities, is a benefit.

In another paragraph he was talking about where the government insisted on

some flexibility to assume some of the costs of the municipal councils. That is

great. Being a former minister myself, there were programs where we helped

smaller municipalities, like under the ministry of HRE, such as in the Town of

Burlington where we picked up about 90 per cent of the municipality's costs.

We did it for many other smaller communities around. That is the only way that

the program can work. I see it is important that the minister has agreed that

will continue, and I want to applaud him on that particular part.

Anytime that we have new money going into the Province in new infrastructure,

that is great, and I want to thank the minister for that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I, too, thank the minister for

an advance copy of his ministerial statement.

I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, that it is good news when municipalities

are going to be afforded the type of money that will allow them to do the things

that are needed within their communities.

For a long time now, Mr. Speaker, we have heard many communities around this

Province - I think it was over 200 - who are on boil water orders, no fit water

to consume. That is something, Mr. Speaker, that has to change. We all know what

happened in place like Ontario where we have had disasters associated with unfit

drinking water. These are things that the municipalities will now hopefully be

able to do.

There is also the issue, Mr. Speaker, of raw sewage going out into all of the

harbours and bays around this Province. It is something that is obviously a

disaster for many of the communities around.

With initiatives like this, Mr. Speaker, hopefully some of these things can

be held in check and improved and cleaned up.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My first question is for the Minister of Transportation and Works.

Mr. Speaker, two years ago the Town of Botwood wrote a letter to the former

Minister of Transportation and Works regarding port divestiture in that town.

They did not get a meeting with the former minister or receive what they

consider to be a satisfactory response to their letter. We have been asked by

the Town of Botwood to ask the current Minister of Transportation and Works:

Will you give the commitment today that you will arrange a meeting with the town

to discuss this port divestiture?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Member for Exploits raised this issue with me last week,

shortly after becoming minister. I have had a discussion with the deputy

minister and assistant deputy minister on this matter, Mr. Speaker. To my

understanding, there was some problem with a letter that had been sent to the

Town of Botwood and the - (inaudible) town, but the federal government as it

relates to the port divestiture. We have had a discussion on it. I have

indicated to the Member for Exploits that I have no problem meeting with

representatives from Botwood on this matter; however, Mr. Speaker, we are

redrafting a letter right now and hopefully the letter will be satisfactory and

a meeting may not be required.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you for the response, Minister.

Mr. Speaker, the rest of my questions are to the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the federal government announced -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. REID: I guess the former Fisheries Minister, the Minister of

Transportation and Works, will answer these. It is rather confusing here at

times, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Yesterday, the federal government announced their intentions

related to the income trust in this country. Now that the federal government has

brought more certainty to the issue, does the minster feel, or has he been given

any indication, that FPI will move forward with their income trust proposal?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Following the passage of the legislation earlier this year, lawyers for the

department and for FPI have been negotiating the implementation of the term

sheet into a contract. That matter is not completed as yet. We have not heard

from the solicitors for FPI since they announced that they were going to do a

review. So we have not heard from FPI, at least I am not aware of any

communications from FPI, with respect to the income trust since the federal

Finance Minister's announcement this morning.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

You wonder why we get confused about who we should be asking questions of.

Mr. Speaker, this one is for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

Last spring, the Minister of Fisheries and the Premier implemented a Raw

Material Sharing system without any consultation and against the wishes of

harvesters in this Province. As a result, the crab fishery was late starting and

it was one of the reasons that contributed to an overall decrease in the landed

value of fish products in this Province by some $200 million. The Premier, as a

result of protests at the time, finally committed to establish a committee,

headed by Richard Cashin, to examine the RMS, Raw Material Sharing system. The

Premier also stated that he would abide by the recommendation of Mr. Cashin.

I ask the minister: Will the government honour this commitment, and has the

government received a preliminary report from Mr. Cashin?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yes, we will honour the recommendations that will be brought

forward by Mr. Cashin; and, unless it has happened since I left the Petten

Building to move over to the West Block, I am not aware of any preliminary

report being provided to government by Mr. Cashin. We anticipate Mr. Cashin's

report within a week or two.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, after talking to hundreds of fish harvesters and

some of the plant owners in the Province, it is my understanding that Mr. Cashin

will recommend the scrapping of this disastrous and ill-conceived Raw Material

Sharing plan in favour of a strengthened Final Offer Selection model that was

implemented by, I think, the Minister of Fisheries, John Efford, back in 1997.

I ask the minister: If this is what Mr. Cashin recommends, will the

government or the minister force processors to participate in this model the

same way as this government forced harvesters to participate in the RMS system?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as the member might well remember, the RMS system, whether he

considers it ill-conceived or not, came about on his watch and on the watch of

the person who came immediately after him, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au

Clair. It came forward in a couple of reports, both commissioned by this

Opposition when they were the government. That is where Raw Material Sharing

came from, after very extensive consultations by Mr. Dunne, Mr. Jones -

MR. REID: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: - and others, and Mr. Vardy and so on and so on.

Mr. Speaker, we said we would honour Mr. Cashin's recommendations. We will

honour Mr. Cashin's recommendations.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister, I can guarantee you that no one on this side of the

House ever came up with the Raw Material Sharing plan, and I will guarantee you

there was no one on this side of the House who forced it upon the fishermen in

this Province against their wishes. There is only one minister who can take

credit for that and he is the one who was just speaking.

Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if Mr. Cashin recommends the Final Offer Selection model, as I

am apt to believe that he will: Will the Minister of Fisheries or the Minister

of Labour have to change the legislation to implement it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we do not know if we will have to change the legislation. We do

not know if we will have to create a new Fishing Industry Collective Bargaining

Act. We do not know what we will have to do until we get Mr. Cashin's report.

When we get Mr. Cashin's report we will undertake to take whatever measures

and whatever legislative amendments are required to bring about the changes that

Mr. Cashin recommends. That is it. We said it last spring, we said it here

previously this week. I said it a couple of minutes ago. I am saying it again

now and if he asks me the same question again, I will say it again, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister is not telling us anything new when he says he does not know

much.

Mr. Speaker, under the old Final Offer Selection model, processors could back

out of the model by giving sufficient notice to government. All they had to do

was say we do not want in the model, give sufficient notice and they could back

out of the model.

Will the minister ensure that if the legislation is changed so that

processors will not be able to back out of the program, throwing the fishery

back into chaos like he did last year?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, when we get the report we will act on the report, unlike the

previous Administration who got reports and did not act on them. Mr. Speaker,

when we get reports we act on them. When Mr. Cashin provides us with the report,

we will take the report and we will implement it. Whatever is required to make

it possible to implement that report, Mr. Speaker, that is what will be done.

That is what the Premier said last spring, that is what I said last spring, that

is what all the government said last spring. That is what I said just now. I

said it previously. If he asks me the same question in fifteen minutes time, I

will say it again because he obviously cannot hear.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, he said a lot of things

that he was going to do. He actually said to the fish harvesters of this

Province that he was going to consult with them. We know what happened to that

commitment he made.

Mr. Speaker, any legislative change that is required to get our fishery open

in April of next year will have to come to this House of Assembly before the

session closes for Christmas, as the House, as we all know, will not be

scheduled to come back until the end of March.

I ask the Minister: Will you assure those involved in the fishing industry,

the most important industry in our Province, will you assure the people involved

in that industry that any necessary legislative changes, changes that will

ensure the fishery opens in a timely and orderly manner, will be done before

this session closes for Christmas?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is up to the Opposition when they close the House and it is

up to government when we call the House. So, Mr. Speaker, I cannot give any

undertaking that we will provide the legislation before Christmas, but if we

require legislative amendments in order to bring this season about, I am sure

that they will be done.

Mr. Speaker, if we have to come back in January, we will come back in

January; if we have to come back in February, we will come back in February; if

we have to come back in March, we will come back in March. We will be ready to

do the legislative amendments if required, Mr. Speaker. The question is: Will

the Opposition be available?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: You don't have to worry about that, I say to the minister.

You will not have to worry about that. But, I am glad to see that you said you

would open the House immediately if it was required so that we can get the

fishery open in a timely and orderly fashion next spring, because we certainly

do not want to see a repeat of what you caused last spring.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, as a result of the disastrous fishery experienced

by many this year, partially created by the former minister, the minister who is

answering the questions today, many harvesters and crew members have left the

Province while others are facing a very difficult winter with little or no

income.

I ask the minister: What measures is your government taking to deal with this

must unfortunate circumstance?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, in the fishing industry in this

Province, as is the case in other jurisdictions in Atlantic Canada and other

jurisdictions in this world, if he wanted to read the editorial in the Telegram

this morning, I think it was this morning, he might see that very similar

situation is being encountered in Australia.

Mr. Speaker, this situation, while he may want to blame it on RMS - and he

did say that it was only partially because of RMS - the fact of the matter is,

the industry in Newfoundland and Labrador is undergoing major structural change.

Mr. Speaker, what has to be done is both levels of government engage in an early

retirement program, a rationalization program for the fleet, as has been

indicated and supported by the FFAW. Mr. Speaker, those are the types of things

that have to be done to get long-term, lasting benefits for the people in the

industry, not just short-term stop gap measures that the previous Administration

is good at.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: I thank the minister for his answer because he just said that

he is doing nothing to help these people through this winter. That is what you

just said. You are looking for a long-term solution. You were talking about that

when you were over here in Opposition three years ago, or two years, you are

still talking about it.

Mr. Speaker, in my discussions with fish harvesters and crew members, they

are suggesting that an extension to employment benefits may be an acceptable

solution to the problems they are experiencing today; not tomorrow or next year,

or ten years from now, today. They think that is an acceptable solution.

I ask the minister: Have you or your government made any representation to

the federal government on their behalf with regard to that issue?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have made representation to the federal government on

adjustment measures for the fishery, generally. We have talked to the federal

government about the need for a fleet rationalization program. We have talked to

the federal government about a need for an early retirement program to bring

lasting benefits to the people in the industry and do a lasting rationalization

and a lasting restructuring of the industry. That is what we have done.

As a former Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, I heard him on many

occasions, Mr. Speaker, indicate how difficult and virtually impossible it is to

get an extension to E.I. benefits. The same type of request was made several

years ago when ice hampered the startup of the lobster fishery on the West Coast

and he would only have to refer back to his response at that time to find out

the answer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Transportation and Works must not

read his own accident reports. He again quoted in today's paper, stating that

the highway equipment from Placentia broke down that morning when his own

department's accident report - which I have a copy of - indicates the

equipment broke down four days earlier, on November 9, and left the repair shop

on November 15. This piece of equipment was never on the road November 14, as

the minister indicated.

With current ice control needs and winter storms possibly any day, can the

minister tell the House if the entire fleet is now ready, parts available on

site at depots, and all winter equipment and staff in place, not the 80 per cent

the minister was so proudly claiming?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the vehicle was on the road. Now, he can say what he likes. The

vehicle was on the road. I have the report from the supervisor saying that. My

assistant deputy minister talked to the operator of the vehicle this morning.

The vehicle left the highway's depot in Placentia at 7:30, based on an

assessment of the road that was done between 7:00 and 7:15 when ice was found;

not as was indicated by the Member for Bay of Island yesterday and again today.

The vehicle was on the road, Mr. Speaker.

Now, the shop repair report that he refers to indicates that there was

maintenance done on the vehicle on the ninth and tenth, Mr. Speaker. The

equipment that needed to be replaced on the fifteenth, as I understand it, was

the snowplow; the wing and the strobe lights. That is not required, the last

time I checked, for sanding and salting operations, Mr. Speaker. The vehicle was

on the road.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I just say to the minister, the truck never even

left the shop until November 15 th .

MR. TAYLOR: Wrong! Wrong! (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: It is right on the report when it left the shop. Obviously,

Mr. Speaker, the answer is no, that all the equipment is not ready.

I had calls as late as this morning indicating that essential equipment is

still broken down and they are still waiting for parts to arrive and be

installed. This morning I received calls from three different depots.

Can the minister explain why parts are not being stocked at maintenance

depots and why equipment is not ready at this time of year when snow and ice

cause serious safety threats.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, our fleet of snow clearing and ice control equipment is at a

state of readiness equivalent to, or in excess of, what it has been in recent

years. I cannot speak for going back in history very far, but certainly over the

past five or six years. Based on what has been shown to me, based on the

percentages available, right now, Mr. Speaker, we are practically at 100 per

cent.

AN HON. MEMBER: Practically.

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, well you are never at 100 per cent, Mr. Speaker,

vehicles break down. I drove back across the Island three weeks ago in a car and

I lost the motor three miles west of Whitbourne, and I didn't know there was

anything wrong with it before that. These things happen, Mr. Speaker. That

happens.

Mr. Speaker, our fleet is ready, our employees are back with the exception of

twenty-seven people. Seven of those people, as I understand it, out of over 400,

are loader operators and twenty are people who are being replaced as a result of

people who retired or left the department over the past year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister was saying that everybody

was back. Why are we now, in the middle of winter, waiting to call back

twenty-seven people? Obviously the department is just not ready.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, staff in the department are calling us daily to

confirm that the ill-conceived winterization of depots compromised the summer

maintenance program and prevented equipment from being ready for the winter

season. Mayors have complained, and media have reported, equipment still waiting

for parts and repairs.

Will the minister, on behalf of the safety of the Province, commit to

undertaking a review of this ill-conceived winterization plan and commit to

reinstating all depots on a year-round basis?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I just don't know how hard it is to get something through the

Member for Bay of Island's head. I don't know how hard it is to get it

through.

Mr. Speaker, the bottom line is, the closure of thirteen depots in the summer

has nothing to do with the equipment that is available in the winter. The people

who repair the vehicles - the mechanics, the equipment technicians - are people

who are on the job right now, who were on the job this summer, who were on the

job last fall, and were on the job last summer.

Those are the facts. Now, he can spin it however he would like, and he can

try to make mountains out of molehills, and whatever, but the fact of the matter

is that the people who repaired the equipment in 2004, 2003 and 2002, in July,

August, September, October and November, were on the job in 2005.

Mr. Speaker, those are the facts.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just have one question for the Minister Responsible for Labour.

Minister, the workers and the economy of the Stephenville area have been on

hold for months while we await the future regarding their mill. I am wondering

if the minister has received any requests from either the company, Abitibi, or

from the union, to assist with the stalled talks up to this point; and, if not,

are you prepared to undertake that you would contact the company and the union

to at least offer whatever assistance your department and your officials might

in trying to unravel this most unfortunate but serious situation?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I think it was some time late last week that a representative

from the union contacted our office and asked what would the process be of

asking for a mediator or arbitrator if it came to the point where, between the

unionized employees and the representatives and the company officials, they felt

that they would require it.

I informed, on behalf of the government, the unionized representatives what

the process would be if they requested a mediator through this process; I

explained the process to them. They appreciated that and, to my knowledge, they

have not availed of that request, or they have not made that request to the

department yet.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Education.

There has been a report prepared for the Eastern School District covering

issues such as zoning, busing, school reorganization, a very comprehensive and

major report which I understand the school district has had since the end of

August or early September.

Is the minister prepared to make this report public and available to the

people of the Province as it affects schools on the Avalon, Burin and Bonavista

Peninsulas, some 70 per cent of the school children in the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, there is a comprehensive report being done by a

consultant, and I haven't had a copy of this report up to this time. The

report will be tabled at the next school board meeting, Eastern School Board

meeting, which I understand is scheduled for December 7. As it is tabled at that

meeting, which will be a public meeting, it will become a public report and will

be available to anyone who wants a copy of that report.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Can the Minister of Education advise the House how many members of her

Administration, or her caucus, have been briefed on this report by the Director

of the Eastern School District, who was a former Tory candidate in the last

election?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I cannot give an exact number of how many

officials within the Department of Education may have been working with the

consultant or have been briefed on the report. I would understand that they must

be providing information, working with the consultant. I am completely unaware

if any caucus members have been briefed on the contents of that report at this

time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Can the minister advise how it is that the Minister of Municipal Affairs

could have a meeting with school councils in his district, talk about this

report, and practically announce a new school for his district based on the

findings of this report?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, based upon what happened in the past with the education reform

with the Opposition, which were the government at the time, there was nothing

but mass confusion happening with respect to education reform.

I had no briefing, Mr. Speaker, none at all whatsoever, with respect to the

document that the member refers to. I called a meeting, and had a meeting last

night with four school councils in my district, telling them that this report

will be forthcoming, that it will be made public some time in December, as I

know of, and that I wanted to get together with them after the report was made

public to address the concerns and work with them to address any concerns that

may be made public at that point in time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and advise the group that he had met

on two occasions, at least, with the school director.

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Education -

MR. J. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: As the hon. the minister would know, we usually do not take

points of order during Question Period. Maybe I would suggest that we could

defer and let the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi ask another question.

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The question was whether the director had met with Members of the House of

Assembly, in particular the Minister of Municipal Affairs, but I would like to

ask the minister: Will she confirm that her government's policy is to support

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. HARRIS: Will the minister confirm that she and her government stand

by the policy of community schools in rural Newfoundland -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. HARRIS: - and neighbourhood schools in urban areas, as was the

purpose of the whole issue of denominational education (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi is making accusations that he

cannot back up because they cannot be backed up.

Mr. Speaker, here is the reality of the situation. I know it is Question

Period, but the reality of the situation is simply this: I have had meetings

with school board members over the number of years that I have been in this

House of Assembly to discuss the concerns in my district. There has been a major

busing issue in my district since last year. I met with the previous Chair, I

have met with the present Chair, to try to get that resolved, and that is what

the discussion was about, Mr. Speaker. Nothing more, nothing less.

He should apologize.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Finance.

Mr. Speaker, some of the most vulnerable in our society are being negatively

impacted by the high price of heating their homes. When the government announced

their Home Heating Fuel Rebate, they left thousands of poor and middle-income

earners in this Province out in the cold.

I ask the minister: Will he listen to the public outcry and expand the rebate

program to include those using electricity and other sources of fuel to heat

their homes?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The rebate program we announced is the highest in the entire country in

rebating people - putting it in the hands and the pockets of people - on fuel,

number one.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Secondly, in the last two years, electricity has risen by

$388 more to help people heat their home. That is the extra cost. It has risen

by $1,058, the increased amount of heating it by home heating fuel. It is three

times as much. We are going to compensate people under home heating fuel up to

$400 of net income. That could be $37,000 of gross income. It could be $35,000

of gross income. Net income is what counts. You could make more than thirty, get

a rebate.

We have done it to address people, particularly people who are hardest hit,

low-income people. Unlike the federal program that is tied to a guaranteed

income supplement, we raised it significantly high, way above that amount. It is

not close to what any other province in this country has put forth. It is the

most compassionate and most direct home heating program offered, to my

knowledge, in the history of this country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the minister, he should remember his own private member's motion

when he was in Opposition, about including electricity when the Home Heating

Fuel Rebate was issued before.

Mr. Speaker, the minister may be proud to balance the government's budget,

but he should not forget the thousands of poor people around this Province who

are finding it difficult to balance their budgets this year.

I ask the minister: Will he expand this program to include the working poor

and middle-income earners who are finding themselves in a financially difficult

position due to the high cost of heating fuels?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, when we dealt with a private member's

resolution in this House there was no difference in the increase and escalation

of home heating fuel costs and electricity costs. Since that time, home heating

costs have skyrocketed and electricity gone up close to the price of inflation -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, if they do not want to hear the answer....

Over the last seven years, electricity has marginally exceeded, per year, the

amount of inflation on any goods or services. Food has gone up; other services

have gone up. It has gone up in a reasonable line. The reason why is because it

has skyrocketed, home heating fuel, creating a lot of hardships for people in

this Province.

What we have done is, we have taken an action to address that, Mr. Speaker,

and the program is far beyond what any other province in this country has done

in direct input back to people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, what a short distance walk across this House can

change when someone is fighting for something.

Yesterday, government unveiled an insufficient program that it claims will

help low-income earners with energy efficiency in their homes. Most of the

people he is targeting cannot afford to fed themselves, Mr. Speaker, and will

certainly not have the money available to take

part in this program. Government

is flushed with cash from high energy prices.

Will the minister come forward with a better plan for low-income individuals

and expand the program announced yesterday to assist the working poor and

middle-income earners dealing with high energy costs?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, our government is dealing with low-income

people across the whole spectrum. We introduced an income tax for people,

families below $19,000 income and $11,500 single, no income tax of a provincial

nature. We have increased supplements to low-income people. We have introduced,

under Income Support, an increase for single parents and single people living

with low incomes, an increase.

Mr. Speaker, we are developing now a poverty strategy to look at the whole

spectrum of low-income people, how we can address the needs of these people in a

very comprehensive manner across all aspects of health and education, across

income and other areas, and you will see some of these aspects rolled out in the

next budget, what this government is doing to combat poverty and deal with

people - when a government did nothing but freeze rates for a number of years,

and did absolutely nothing to address low-income people in this Province.

We are going to take action, Mr. Speaker. It will be comprehensive, it will

be detailed, and it will deal with the underlying cause of poverty in this

Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

We have time for one very quick supplementary.

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will go directly to the question. I ask the minister: Will government

consider helping the many non-profit and volunteer groups around this Province

who are having to cut short the good work they do because of high fuel prices?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, we deal with numerous groups, numerous

agencies out there. We provide funding in many of these instances. Funding

varies from year to year based on need. Every single individual group out there

deals with respect to departments. Are we going to carte blanche, blanket, throw

money at something without looking at individual causes? The answer is no, but

we are aware. We have advanced -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, we have advanced funds and we are looking at

dealing with the increased cost of heating all over the Province, whether it is

in government buildings, whether it is in hospitals, whether it is people

driving vehicles across the Province. We have looked at a lot of things. We are

giving serious consideration to a whole variety of things, and the impact that

high fuel price are having on people in this Province and low-income people. We

have made tremendous progress on numerous issues that have not been touched for

years, and we are going to make more progress because we want to move this

Province from one that has the highest poverty rate that we inherited from that

government, in this country, and we want to move it to the lowest in this

country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allocated for Question Period has expired.

The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege. It is unparliamentary in this

House of Assembly or any Legislature for one member to impugn the motives of

another member. During Question Period today, the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi impugned motives on myself as the Member for Cape St. Francis.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi either to back up

what he said, produce the evidence of what he said, or stand up and withdraw

and/or apologize.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, speaking to

a point of privilege.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I do not know if I am entitled to speak to a point of privilege; it sounds

more like a point of order. What I will say is that the member should read

Hansard before he suggests that I am impugning his motives. I did not impugn

anybody's motives. I just ask questions, and the ministers choose to get up

and answer them in a certain way. I do not feel I have said anything that either

impugns his motives, accuses him of anything, or suggests that anything I had

said requires an apology.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader, speaking to the point

of privilege.

MR. E. BYRNE: Absolutely, Mr. Speaker.

The Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi presented to this House today a fact

that he presented as a fact. The record will show he said to the Minister of

Municipal Affairs: You said at the meeting last night. Now, Mr. Speaker, the

question that begs to be answered, and I guess what the Minister of Municipal

Affairs has before you for consideration - the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi

knows this, that if you are going to stand in the House and present a question

which really amounts to, when did you stop beating your child last, because that

is the type of question he asked, imputing a motive on the Minister of Municipal

Affairs, and put forward a fact to this House as if he was there when he was

not, he has a responsibility to either back up his allegation and lay the

evidence right here so people can see it, or go out and say: Well, I just asked

a question and I don't mind putting innuendo on a person's integrity and

character in this House. It can only be one or the other, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly don't wish to intercede on behalf of the Member for Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi, the Leader of the NDP. I am sure he needs no defense from

myself, he is quite capable of defending himself, but I think his suggestion is

immanently reasonable. Rather than get into a he said-she said thing here,

perhaps we might, I would suggest, wait for the printing of Hansard and then we

will all be in a position to see what was or was not said, and we will be in a

better position to deal with it, rather than dealing with it quickly, without

proper consideration and thought as to what was or was not said.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, speaking to

the point of privilege.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

With all due respect to the Government House Leader, this is not a court of

law and you don't have to be an eye witness to something to bring it up in the

House. If that were the case, we wouldn't talk about very much in this House

of Assembly.

Whatever facts were contained in what I said were not denied by the minister.

We should all read Hansard and calm down and decide whether or not there is a

point of order or privilege of any kind.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair will review Hansard and if necessary the video tape, to find out

exactly what was said and will report back to the House hopefully by the session

on Monday afternoon of next week.

MR. SPEAKER: Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Pursuant to

Section 26(5)(

a) of the Financial Administration Act, I am

tabling one Order-in-Council relating to a funding pre-commitment for the

2006-2007 fiscal year.

MR. SPEAKER: Further Tabling of Documents. Notices of Motion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is asking for Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Answers to Questions for Which Notice has been Given

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday in Questions Period, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair

asked the Minister of Health and Community Services a question about radiation

equipment at the Health Sciences Centre in St. John's. The minister indicated

to the member that he would report back to the House on this particular matter.

Mr. Speaker, the minister has been in touch with the Eastern Regional

Integrated Health Authority and has been informed that this was a planned

shutdown to install new pieces of radiation equipment which would increase

capacity for cancer patients. In order to install the necessary equipment to

provide this service, Eastern Health has had to renovate an existing treatment

area in the same room that houses equipment to treat skin cancer. Given that it

was a planned shutdown, Eastern Health was proactive in arranging either

alternate treatment or rescheduling some patients for a later date. Those

patients deemed by the treating physicians to require immediate treatment are

receiving it through the use of other radiation equipment. Those patients deemed

by the physician as medically able to wait for treatment are being rescheduled.

Mr. Speaker, the member asked about the number of people who are impacted by

this. Eastern Health advises that a total of eighteen people are impacted by

that room closure. Four patients are waiting for treatment. However, as

previously stated, if there is any concern expressed by the attending physician,

alternate treatment is available. Eight have preliminary markings done and will

be treated when the room reopens, and the remaining six are to be simulated

tomorrow and they will be scheduled for treatment after the simulation is

complete or are waiting for further assessment by their physician.

Mr. Speaker, these treatments are classified as superficial treatments and is

not considered to be a significant problem by the physician or the cancer

centre. The renovation is expected to be completed by a week from Monday coming.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further answers to questions for which notice has been

given?

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was engaged in a conversation with my colleagues across the floor when you

went to Notices of Motion. I did want to make two Notices of Motion, so I would

ask my colleagues in the House just for leave for a moment.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave is granted.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I want to give notice that I will on tomorrow

ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act Respecting Denturists. (Bill 60)

Also, I want to give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce

the following resolution:

WHEREAS subsection 4(1) of the Child and Youth Advocate Act provides

"The Office of the Child and Youth Advocate shall be filled by the

Lieutenant-Governor in Council on a resolution of the House of Assembly."

NOW THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that Ms Darlene Neville be appointed as the

Child and Youth Advocate.

I just want to give notice of that, so that at an appropriate time the

leaders of the three respective parties can pick a time, some time next week,

when we can make that official here in the House.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of some of the people of the

Terra Nova District. I will read the prayer of the petition first.

The petition of the undersigned residents of the provincial District of Terra

Nova and the federal District of Bonavista-Gander-Grand Falls-Windsor humbly

shewth:

WHEREAS the name of the District of Terra Nova offers a reminder of our

historic past and connection with Terra Nova National Park; and

WHEREAS the communities around the Terra Nova National Park share a common

economy based in forestry, agriculture and tourism; and

WHEREAS the tourism industry offers special opportunities associated with

Terra Nova National Park and other opportunities capitalizing on the Terra Nova

identify; and

WHEREAS the current boundaries of Terra Nova National Park greatly affect the

constituents of the Eastport Peninsula, Charlottetown and Glovertown; and

Not withstanding our recognition of the need for Terra Nova National Park to

retain its integrity we now feel the need for winter access through the Terra

Nova National Park from both the Eastport Peninsula and the Town of

Charlottetown; and

WHEREFORE the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon you to

consider the proposal being put forth for consideration and action.

And as duty bound petitions will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to make a couple of comments on this petition. There

are just about 600 names on this petition. Basically, what has happened here is

the residents of some communities, such as Charlottetown and the Eastport

Peninsula, are not able to access the provincial trail system that we have.

As you know, the area of Terra Nova is certainly an area where tourism has

certainly taken off and we certainly have, as a Province, really pushed and

tried to maintain a good trail system. It has created a lot of dollars, a lot of

economic growth for the area. But, the fact is, that these communities cannot

access the trails. They are calling upon the federal government, really. This is

a federal government matter and we realize that. These constituents have asked

me to come forward with this petition, Mr. Speaker, just for a matter, I guess,

to show our support in realizing that we really do need to have an access to the

Park. It is certainly not appropriate that other areas in this Province can

access these trails, and these other smaller communities cannot access it and

certainly all of the Eastport Peninsula.

Today, we certainly call upon the federal government to step up to the plate,

to give us the opportunity to be able to go out there and have a trail way

through the Terra Nova National Park and actually continue to move and make

tourism a great thing within the Terra Nova District and within these

communities and areas.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions?

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess, Mr. Speaker, second reading of a bill. It would be Order 6, second

reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Pippy Park Commission Act. (Bill 42)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 42, Order 6,

An Act To

Amend The Pippy Park Commission Act be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Pippy Park

Commission Act." (Bill 42)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This particular bill here is to enable us to - a couple of particular things.

One, what it does - like, the Commission now has no authority to borrow. Under

this, what this will do, it will have the authority to borrow, given government

approval. For example, the trailer park in Pippy Park is a very heavily utilized

area. We want to expand the trailer park and do an expansion. By applying to

ACOA we could get up to 50 per cent funding, interest free, to do expansions.

That authority is not there now. If we want to enhance that park and utilize it

and make improvements to it, to allow more people to enjoy it, we are

handicapped now because of the current legislation. So, that is one thing that

it does.

A second thing in the bill, because it allows - and it is in the explanatory

notes there - us to appoint enforcement officers now. For instance, if somebody

was up cutting trees in the park, we would not have the authority, particularly

Park Commission, to do something about it. Or, if there was inappropriate

camping up there. We need authority to be able to do something about that, to

have a degree of enforcement over the park.

Overall, there are some efficiency changes just in the operational things in

particular, that this would allow the government to do. So, it is to allow the

park - Pippy Park, as you are aware, has been subsidized by government for many,

many years. We have moved to try to reduce that. We have reduced the grant to

Pippy Park in this year's budget. The intent is to eliminate the grant to

Pippy Park, to make it more efficient in its operation in Pippy Park.

That is why this bill, I will tell the Member for Port de Grave, will allow

an expansion of that area so we can - you can go out and borrow then, on

authority from Cabinet, and you can get 50 per cent interest free, for example,

from ACOA that we cannot do now. This allows to expand the camping area, to

enhance it, to get extra revenues that will pay for the overall costs. That is

one of the benefits in this particular bill. These are the generalities of it.

Either at second reading or in Committee stage, I am certainly open to answer

any particular questions.

With that, I will close my comments on second reading.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you for the opportunity to response to Bill 42. Pippy Park, as we all

know it, has been one of our provincial treasures. Although there are two great

facilities in Pippy Park, it has been operating for about fifteen years in a

deficit and it has always relied on government support. By enacting this new

piece of legislation today, the Commission now will be in a position where it

can borrow on its own and, as the minister said, it can probably attract federal

funding from ACOA, which would be a big plus in expanding the current

facilities.

Of course, the object of this legislation is to reduce the reliance on

government funding and grants. Of course, the Commission has always operated

under the purview of government and they had a guaranteed funding of about

$400,000 a year. Now, over the past year or so that has been reduced to

$350,000. It is constantly under review, this particular park, but the idea of

this piece of legislation, this bill will allow the golf course to operate for

profit. So, in other words, they will have to show a profit and break even at

the end of the year. Of course, by doing this, the current group that operates

the golf course portion, which is named as the Thomas Group, they currently have

a line of credit. I think it is somewhere in the area of about $150,000, the

last time I looked at the Budget particulars last spring. If this piece of

legislation gets passed, it will be necessary, of course, for government to

absorb that line of credit in order for this transition to take place.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There are a number of conversations occurring which is preventing the Speaker

from hearing the presentation put forward by the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

I ask members for their co-operation.

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans continuing to debate this bill at

second reading.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I was saying before the interruption, this new group that will actually be

formed to run the entire golf course will be taking over from the Thomas Group

and will be under an obligation to balance their books at the end of the year.

There is a detail of course that has not been worked out entirely that is a

bit of a concern. One part of the legislation makes an indication that

government will appoint a new board of directors to manage the golf course, but

details are scanty at this point. I know that will occur after the act is

passed. We have not been given any side details as to the group, the numbers,

and: Where will that group come from? Will it be a political patronage group, or

will it be people who are skilled in the industry and who have knowledge of

running a golf course?

When it comes to enforcement of regulations within the park: What kind of

people are going to be hired to enforce those regulations? Will that be another

avenue where this present government will show that they are going to use this

to load it up with political patronage jobs? So, these are the kind of details

that are not included in this legislation that is before us today, but the

backbone of the legislation I do support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further speakers to second reading?

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board. If he

speaks now he will close the debate at second reading.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will just move second reading of Bill 42.

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 42,

An Act To

Amend The Pippy Park Commission Act, be now read a second time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Pippy Park Commission Act. (Bill 42)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a second time. When shall this

bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House? Now? Tomorrow? Presently?

MR. E. BYRNE: Later today.

MR. SPEAKER: Later today.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Pippy Park Commission Act,"

read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House

presently, by leave. (Bill 42)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 9, second reading of a bill,

An Act Respecting Protection Against

Family Violence. (Bill 50)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 50,

An Act Respecting

Protection Against Family Violence, be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act Respecting Protection Against

Family Violence." (Bill 50)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise today to address an issue that has been the source of

growing community and government interest and concern. I am speaking of family

violence.

The past two decades have seen legislative program and policy developments

primarily in the area of criminal justice. Recently, we have seen a significant

development in this Province with the expansion of Victim Services and the

establishment of a child victim witness program.

Today, I wish to introduce the Family Violence Protection Act. This

legislation is civil as opposed to criminal legislation, that will offer an

immediate response for victims of family violence in emergency situations. This

legislation will complement but not replace criminal justice interventions or

decriminalize family violence. Civil family violence legislation fills a gap in

the justice process for victims by providing a broader range of more immediate

remedies than those that are currently available through the Criminal Code.

Currently, when the police respond to a family violence call, their ability

and the grounds to remove the accused is limited. Often, it is the victim and

the children who must leave the home in a police car to be transported to a safe

shelter. Through emergency protection orders, that is set out in the

legislation, the legislation would provide, amongst other things, for the victim

- and the majority of victims in these situations are women - and their children

to be able to remain in the family home where they can have uninterrupted access

to school, to family, to employment and to community support.

Mr. Speaker, applications for emergency protection orders will be made on a ex

parte basis twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. Therefore, this

legislation will go a long way to expanding access to justice for people who

reside in areas where there is no court. A lawyer will not be required in order

to make the application. The application would be made by a phone to a judge,

and the judges will be available on call seven days a week, twenty-four hours a

day.

I am extremely pleased to be able to tell you that this legislation has been

the result of a very active community and government collaborative process. Last

February, government established the Justice Minister's Committee on Violence

Against Women. In addition to senior officials of the Department of Justice and

the Women's Policy Office, we have strong community membership through

representation from the provincial Transition House Association, the Provincial

Advisory Council on the Status of Women, the John Howard Society, and the

Violence Prevention Initiatives Regional Committees in Eastern, Central and

Western Newfoundland and Labrador.

At that time, government identified this legislation as a key priority. We

asked the Committee to do the research, to explore best practices elsewhere in

the country and in the world, and to conduct some consultations on the Island

and in Labrador with key stakeholders and then come back to me, come back to the

department, with a proposal for a model for this Province. We are very pleased

with the results. The committee's work has been extremely valuable, and I

would particularly like to thank Ms Kim Dreaddy of the Provincial Transition

House Association for her hands-on dedication and commitment on this initiative.

I want to thank all of the other members of both the sub-committee and the

minister's committee for helping us bring this legislation forward.

The success of the legislation, Mr. Speaker, will rely heavily on thorough

training, education and development of the appropriate policies and protocols

within the Department of Justice and with other government departments and, as

well, with relevant community partners. We are prepared to begin this work

immediately upon the passage of this legislation.

Mr. Speaker, the government realizes that this legislation makes a strong

statement about how seriously it takes the issue of family violence, and the

devastation that family violence creates in the lives of adults and children

alike. While this legislation will not ultimately solve all problems of family

violence in our society, it is another measure, it is another tool, that we can

offer victims to provide them with more options and more choice in the justice

system, and easier access to the justice system.

Our efforts in this area, along with those of other departments in the

Violence Prevention Initiative, under the leadership of the Minister Responsible

for the Status of Women, the Minister of Education and our community partners

combined, will create substantial social change for a safer Newfoundland and

Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate an opportunity to have a few words in response to this new act,

the Family Violence Protection Act. I would like to commend government, in fact,

for bringing forth this piece of legislation. The issues involving family

violence - which quite often are the same; we have a lot of violence against

women and against children - certainly need to be addressed. We were

handicapped, and the system was handicapped in many cases, when it came to

protecting people who needed this type of protection. The Criminal Code did not,

does not, adequately deal with these situations and respond quickly enough, so

it is good to see that we now will have another tool in the arsenal against

violence that takes place in the family settings.

I am very pleased to see, as well, it is quite obvious that our Provincial

Court Judges will have to buy into this new law, because someone has to be

available on a twenty-four seven basis in order to address these concerns. It is

one thing to pass the law, but it is going to take the co-operation of everyone

in the system, particularly the judges as well, to make sure that this works,

and it is only, I would think, over a period of time that we are going to work

out some of the kinks. I do not think anyone should expect, simply because we

passed the law, that we are going to have everything hunky-dory in terms of

immediacy, proper training and so on. I think there has to be common sense

applied to this, and it is going to take some time for everybody in the system

to get involved, get training, so that we can make this piece of legislation

work for what it is intended to do.

I am also aware there was no doubt a concern from a lot of the civil rights

activists. For example, when you do things of this immediate emergency type

nature, you quite often have concerns raised by people that you may infringe

upon someone's civil rights. Someone makes an emergency application, a judge

deals with it at 4:00 o'clock in the morning, and someone ends up being out of

their home, someone ends up without being able to see their children, because an

order was made. So, the question and concern often raised: Did that infringe

upon somebody's rights.

Again, you have to look at the balance here, and I think it is very proper

and we have made a good balance here because we have not gotten away from the

procedural fairness piece. The respondents in those cases will still have an

opportunity within this process to get due process, and if something has been

done, they feel, improperly, they have lost their rights. We have done two

things. We have preserved their rights for procedure fairness. They have a right

to question again the authority upon which the judge made his decision at a

later time; but, in the meantime, I believe the immediate and necessary problem

has been dealt with, and that is, we have protected someone from violence, and I

think that is a fair trade-off.

I am all in favour of civil rights, and I am certainly in favour of, you

should never encroach upon anyone's civil rights, but I believe there has to

be reasonable limitations from time to time, and in any circumstance where we

deal with family violation, I believe it is always a reasonable limitation to

act prudently in the first instance - for example, such as these emergency

orders being made - and, if there were any violence happening, protect

individuals from having to incur that type of activity.

Again, at this point, I think it is a great policy and it will fill a

loophole. I commend the minister and the government for bringing forward this

piece of legislation and I think it will go a long way to helping a very serious

problem that we are facing today.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to speak on Bill 50,

An Act Respecting Protection Against Family

Violence, here at second reading in the House which is approval in principle. I

am not going to comment on all the details of the legislation, because that is

for Committee stage of the debate, but I do want to talk about the importance of

this legislation and to say that we do support it.

We have seen, in our Province, far too often instances of family violence

that cause women and children to fear for their safety. Women in particular who

are victims of family violence often have no recourse but to leave the family

home, and in many parts of this Province shelter is not available.

We have also seen - and this is the part that, I think, requires more than

just legislation - instances where individuals have been subject to court

processes, whether they be restraining orders, whether they be probation orders,

whether they be conditions of release that have been granted by the courts when

someone has been charged with an offense or taken up on what is commonly known

as a peace bond and have been subject to more stringent rules in the courts.

That itself has not served as sufficient to protect an individual - and here we

are talking almost exclusively about women - from further actions of violence

directed towards them. It is not enough to have a law, not enough to have a

rule, not enough to have an order. There have to be resources available in the

communities where people live to ensure that they are protected.

I suggest, as well, Mr. Speaker, to government officials, to the Department

of Justice, to the police forces, to the judges of the courts who will be

enforcing this order, that there be very careful consideration given in granting

these orders. If orders are granted very easily or too easily, then the respect

for the law, the deserved respect for the law on the orders and the rules, might

not be as strong as it should be. If, when these orders are granted, they are

not enforced because there is insufficient police protection available, then

this law will be considered as ineffective as in some cases peace bonds have

been.

I support the legislation. I support the approach. It is a novel approach. I

do not know what other provinces have this. Maybe the Minister of Justice can

tell us that when he closes debate. It is outside of the criminal law and

provides additional strength to the kind of orders that could be made under the

Family Law Act for exclusive possession of the matrimonial home and provides an

emergency procedure, but it is something that I think, from a civil liberties

perspective, as the Opposition House Leader has said, ought to be used very

carefully because just as we want to ensure that the victims of family violence

are protected, we do not want this provision to be used somehow as a part of the

arsenal of one party to a matrimonial dispute having to do with possession of

matrimonial property. It is extremely important that women be protected, and

women should not have to be the ones who leave because a violent situation

exists.

The question does need to be asked, that after this has passed, will a woman

in a remote community, who is a victim of family violence, be more secure

because this legislation is passed or will she not? Because if the policing

resources are not available, if the respect for the law in these communities

which we are talking about is not strong, then we will have a situation where

these kinds of orders will not be effective in providing safety and security for

individuals.

I will refer to one

section of the act, clause 5, which talks about the times

during which a judge has the power to make such an emergency order - and this is

being made without notice to the other person. So, I think you have to

understand this is a significant intrusion, far above the normal powers that are

given to provincial court judges or other judges. They are giving an order

without notice, which has the effect of excluding an individual from his or her

- because it could be an order against a woman - property. The judge has to

determine, on the balance of probabilities first of all, that family violence

has occurred. And, secondly, that by reason of seriousness or urgency the

emergency protection order should be made without delay to ensure the immediate

protection of the applicant who is at risk of harm or the property that is at

risk of damage.

So, if somebody goes on a rampage on the family home, starting to destroy the

home or threatening to destroy the home, or torch the home, or those kinds of

things as part of a series of threats or actions, then these matters can be

taken into consideration. The judge shall consider - and this is where part two

of that clause says - the nature of the family violence. Obviously, the

seriousness of it, the seriousness of a threat. Secondly, the history of family

violence by the respondent toward the applicant and whether it is more likely

than not that the respondent will continue the family violence. That is a

judgement that the judge will be called upon to make, based on the history and

based on threats and based on what has happened in the past. Thirdly, the

existence of immediate danger to persons or property. Fourthly, the best

interests of the applicant and an affected child.

In considering whether an order of this nature should be made, presumably

also the availability of space in a shelter or availability of a shelter might

be considered as a part of the considerations that a judge would have, whether

or not the circumstances in the community where the individuals are residing,

the availability of police protection - because, again, an order by itself is

not going to be of much help if the RCMP only visit the community once a week or

are stationed some many miles away. So, we have to put a lot of faith in the

judges making proper decisions here, but from the point of view of the personal

safety of women with families who are affected by these orders, we have to know

that the police are available, that they have been trained to deal with these

situations, that they know what to do, that the judges are sufficiently briefed

on the resources that are available, because it is no good to give a judge a

piece of legislation and ask them to make wise decisions based on the

legislation that we have, this brand new legislation, without knowing what

resources are available in a particular community or in the area in which they

are being asked to make an order, whether or not those resources will be

available to ensure that the emergency order provides the kind of protection

that is intended here.

I am very supportive of taking strong measures to protect women from family

violence of this nature, and, because of the history of family violence in this

Province - and not just exclusive to this Province, obviously, all across this

country - we have to know that people are being protected. We have had quite

well-publicized circumstances of people, women, who were subject to or had the

benefit of a peace bond being, in fact, murdered by their spouses, or attempted

to go after them on other occasions, and this is not, obviously, something that

we should spare legislative effort to try to stop and resolve; but, it is not

merely going to be resolved by legislation but must also have the resources to

go with it.

I want to say, in closing, that I support this legislation, that I hope that

proper education and briefing is done to ensure that all those involved in

implementing this legislation are fully aware of the implications and the

provisions that are here, and that the resources will be made available on a

specific basis to ensure that people who are beneficiaries of an order of this

nature, an emergency order, do receive special notice and protection.

Peace bonds are a good example. This is similar to a peace bond in the sense

that - although peace bonds under the Criminal Code can create specific criminal

offences for doing things contrary to what is spelled out in the peace bond

order; but, they haven't always proven effective in family violence

situations. We need to be convinced, to some extent, that this will work better,

and one of the ways that it will work better is if the police force in a

particular area are certain to have notice of these emergency orders when they

are made.

I have not seen all of the detail of this legislation, whether this is a

legislated requirement that the local police force in the area in which an

emergency protection order has been made shall be notified of the existence of

this peace order. Because one of things that happens, of course, if there is a

violation or attempted violation or a possible violation, of one of these

emergency orders, is that the police have to know that the order is in place.

That has been an issue with respect to peace bonds in the past, that if the

police are not in possession of a peace bond it is very difficult for them to

act on a peace bond in terms of following up and enforcing the peace bond.

Perhaps the minister has a special plan to ensure that the police force are

notified in the case of every emergency protection order that is made under this

act, that this takes place.

The order is a direction to a police officer under

section 15. It is a

directive, and this is what it says here, "An emergency protection order

made under this Act is a direction binding on a police officer to (

a) give

notice of the order to the respondent in accordance with this Act and the rules

of court; and (

b) take necessary steps, which may include the arrest of the

respondent and the seizure of property, to enforce compliance with the emergency

protection order."

Perhaps this is the notice that I was talking about. It goes further than

filing a copy with the police officer, but it says it is binding on a police

officer, so I guess it has to be provided to a police officer so that they would

be involved from the very beginning. I suppose ipso facto, to use a phrase, by

virtue of that, the local police authority would certainly have notice of that

order, and they are also required to take necessary steps to enforce compliance.

I think that does go further than a peace bond, and provides the kind of

direction to peace officers that may be necessary; but, as I indicated earlier,

there is going to be a requirement of a fair degree of briefing and education on

the part of all peace officers, that they are aware of what their obligations

are with respect to this legislation, how they can function to carry it out, and

how they can act on a timely basis to ensure that compliance with these

emergency protection orders are, in fact, taking place.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I welcome other speakers on this issue. I

understand the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women will speak on this

as well, and I am interested in hearing other views on this legislation which I

think is a very important step in making more secure the victims of family

violence in our Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Further speakers at second reading.

If the hon. the ministers speaks now, he will close debate at second reading.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just want to say I appreciate the comments of the hon. Government House

Leader and also the Leader of the New Democratic Party. I can appreciate some of

the concerns they have raised, and I can assure you that the committee of

experts, the Minister's advisory Committee on Violence Against Women,

certainly have spent a lot of time analyzing some of the concerns that the hon.

members have raised, and have certainly looked at the best practice models that

have existed in other parts of the country.

I was in the Yukon recently for the federal, provincial and territorial

meeting of Justice Ministers, and there I spoke to the Justice Minister from the

Northwest Territories who is very pleased with the legislation. They had

recently implemented similar legislation in that territory and he spoke very

highly of it.

The Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi spoke and raised concerns to make sure

that resources were placed into this initiative. Of course, they do have to be,

and I am pleased to tell the hon. member that the legislation will be

incorporated within the existing system and structure, but there will be a

dedicated co-ordinator in the department who will be developing training and

education programs and will work with the Department of Justice and other

departments and with appropriate community agencies on policy and protocol

developments.

In terms of overall resources in the Justice system, this government has

already begun implementing strategies to enhance police resources throughout the

Province.

Hon. members also raised concerns with respect to the judge giving careful

consideration in granting this emergency order. The application is ex parte

which means that the applicant alone will be talking to the judge and when the

order is granted it will have the respondent removed from the home by the

police, as opposed to the current situation where the person who it a victim of

domestic violence is required to leave the home and go to a shelter.

It is important to point out that if the order is granted by the judge, the

order will last a maximum of ninety days, the order cannot be renewed, and the

respondent, within ten days, can apply to a judge to have the order set aside or

to have the order varied or terminated. So there is due process. The applicant

will have a chance. When that happens, it is a new hearing and the evidence that

was brought up, was brought before the judge at the time of the original

application, and any new evidence will be heard.

The last thing I just want to say, is that in terms of communities where

there are no police officers, there is provision in the legislation where the

application can be brought by, of course, the victim. It can also be brought by

someone who lives with the victim, or a parent of the victim. A police officer

can bring the application. I would imagine in most cases it will be a police

officer that would initiate the application or the phone call to the judge, but

also the Minister of Justice in the act, is allowed to delegate, pursuant to the

regulations, people in the community who could be of assistance to victims. This

could be very helpful, especially in those communities where there is not a

police officer or there may be some time before a police officer can respond to

the call.

I want to thank the hon. members for their support. This is a very important

piece of legislation. It is progressive legislation. It will not solve all of

the problems but it will give those who suffer from domestic violence, another

tool, another step, another initiative, in helping to try to prevent family

violence in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 50,

An Act

Respecting Protection Against Family Violence, be now read a second time?

All those in favour, Aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting Protection Against Family Violence.

(Bill 50)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 50,

An Act Respecting Protection Against Family

Violence has now been read a second time. When shall this bill be referred to a

Committee of the Whole House?

MR. E. BYRNE: Later today.

MR. SPEAKER: Later in the day.

On motion, a bill, "An Act Respecting Protection Against Family

Violence," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole

House presently, by leave. (Bill 50)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 10, second reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Act,

1991. (Bill 44)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 44,

An Act To Amend The

Provincial Court Act, 1991, be now read a second time.

On motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Provincial

Court Act, 1991." (Bill 44)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise again to speak on another important topic in this

Province and to speak to Bill 44,

An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Act.

This act, Mr. Speaker, requires the appointment of a standing three-member

tribunal to make recommendations to the Minister of Justice on the salaries and

benefits of provincial court judges every four years. The process is designed to

ensure the independence of judges and the judicial system.

Mr. Speaker, as we all know, under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, anyone

charged with a crime is entitled to a hearing before an impartial and an

independent tribunal. So we have to make sure that our judges who hear these

cases are truly independent, and we do this in a number of ways. We give judges

security of tenure, that they cannot be fired without the influence of either

the House of Assembly or other provincial judicial council. They cannot be

transferred without their consent. We also have to ensure that they have some

financial security, because obviously, we cannot have a situation where a judge

is deciding cases where the provincial government itself is a litigant in many

of these cases. We cannot have a situation where if the provincial government

does not like the decision that the provincial court judge has made, that it

would somehow take away certain benefits or reduce the judges salary.

The Supreme Court of Canada has ordered that the process of determining

judges' salaries and judges' benefits be de-politicalized. Basically, that

means that there has to be a buffer. There has to be some buffer between the

government and the judges to determine their salary and their benefits. What we

have done in this Province in the past, is set up what is known as a salary and

benefits tribunal.

The last tribunal reported to the former Minister of Justice in September,

2001. Its report was considered by this House and was implemented as directed by

the House on April 1, 2002. The new tribunal was appointed last month on October

17, 2005. The Chair of the tribunal is retired Supreme Court Judge Geoffrey

Steele. The judges' representative on the tribunal is Mr. David Day, Q.C., and

the government's representative on the tribunal is Mr. David Norris, MBA, the

former Deputy Minister of Finance in the Newfoundland and Labrador Government. I

have asked this tribunal to report to me by April 1, 2006. The report period to

be addressed is four years from 2004-2005 to 2007-2008

This amendment is of a housekeeping nature only.

Section 28.2 of the act

requires the tribunal to report to the Minister of Justice within four years

from the date of the last report. The purpose of this amendment is to defer the

statutory report to April 1, 2004 from September 14, 2005; to confirm the

process now underway, with the co-operation and participation of the judges. The

new date of April 1, 2006 will provide sufficient time for the tribunal to

consider all issues before it and also permits tabling of the report in

consideration by this House during the spring session of the House.

Mr. Speaker, I ask my hon. colleagues to support this amendment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We certainly will be supportive of this amendment. It is more of a

housecleaning thing. I guess they need more time to get it done and get it done

right, and anything that permits of doing it proper and with proper

consideration, we certainly would not be having any objection to.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further speakers at second reading?

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly have no difficulties with the legislation here. This committee

has important work to do and it is necessary to have the reports before the

House of Assembly in a timely fashion. The minister's explanation makes sense

to me, so we support this legislation.

MR. SPEAKER: Any further speakers at second reading?

If the hon. minister speaks now he will close the debate at second reading.

The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleagues for the swift

passage of this legislation, which will allow this very important tribunal to

carry on its work.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 44,

An Act To

Amend The Provincial Court Act, 1991, be now read a second time?

All those in favour, aye.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Act, 1991. (Bill 44)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 44,

An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Act, 1991, has

been now been read a second time. When shall this bill be referred to a

Committee of the Whole House? Now? Tomorrow? Presently?

MR. E. BYRNE: Later today, Mr. Speaker.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Act,

1991," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole

House presently, by leave. (Bill 44)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 4, second reading of a bill,

An Act To Amend The Forestry Act. (Bill

32)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 32,

An Act To Amend The

Forestry Act, be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Forestry

Act." (Bill 32)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, Bill 32,

An Act to Amend The Forestry Act, has been in the

works, I suppose, for about two-and-a-half to three years; maybe a little

longer, but not much. It is a result really that emanates from an outstanding

court decision, or came about as a decision of a court, and a court action that

was taken against the Crown sometime ago. I say that just by way of background,

so we understand the impetus for what we are about to discuss from debate. But,

out of that process has come, I believe, I can say to my colleague, the Minister

of Conservation and Environment, what we believe to be a pretty progressive and

forward looking piece of legislation. I do want to acknowledge upfront as well,

that much of the work, or at least half of the work associated with this piece

of legislation, was conducted by the previous Administration as well, who are

more than well aware of the impacts and the positive outcomes associated with

this act.

Essentially, what this act will do, and ultimately provide for, is - I do not

know if the word streamlining would be the most appropriate word but I will use

it in any event - streamlining the environmental assessment process and the

forestry planning process within each district to allow for a shorter time frame

and allow for the ability for the management of the forest system to be

conducted in a different and, in my view, more accountable up-front way.

Some features of the act, for example, provide for the concurrence of, I just

said, the forestry planning environmental assessment process to go forward, the

duty to consult, the ability to modify but not change the five-year forestry

plans within available districts, but the ability to modify and adapt to changes

within that period of time without adding to the Annual Allowable Cut that has

been established. A very important feature, as we have come to see through the

experiences that we have had.

Mr. Speaker, I offered a briefing to any and all members, certainly, related

to any piece of legislation. I mean, that is a standing offer that any member of

this House or any caucus who wish to have, what we refer to as a technical

briefing with respect to any piece of legislation. We would endeavour and do our

best to ensure that whatever information that we have within my own department,

or any other department, certainly is made available to the extent that we can,

which explains legislation and trying to provide members with as much

information as possible with respect to any piece of legislation.

To that end, I know that the Official Opposition had a briefing on this

yesterday. The Chief Executive Officer of the Newfoundland and Labrador Forestry

Service was in with another member of my staff, the Director of Communications

for Natural Resources, and presented a briefing to the Opposition. I think, at

the time, answered any questions to the best of their ability, any queries to

the best of their ability.

Second reading, Mr. Speaker, is about outlining, obviously, the general

thrusts and throes of what the piece of legislation is about and why we are

doing it and why we are moving forward. So, with that opening commentary, I will

take my seat and look forward to any other commentary or discussion that members

may have. In particular, if we want to get into a detailed discussion on a

clause-by-clause basis, I am certainly prepared, obviously, to do that at the

Committee stage.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate an opportunity to have a few words on the amendments to the

Forestry Act. People sometimes wonder, I guess, what we do spending a lot of

time here talking about some things that sometimes many of us know very little

about; for example, forestry. Coming from a place like Port aux Basques, of

course, we do not have to deal too much with forests in my neck of the woods

where the woodpecker brings a lunch. In any case, it is great that we review

here, as an institution, the laws that we are all governed by. Sometimes we do

not pick it up ourselves, that we did something wrong or we did not do it right

in the first place. Sometimes we are smart enough, through experience, to note

that we did not get it right and therefore we have to come back to the House.

That is why what we consider to be the laws of the land, from time to time, need

to be overhauled, like anything else, updated and made to fit the current day

circumstances.

That is what we had here, basically. We had a court decision, commonly

referred to as the Barry decision, back in 2001, when they said there are some

things amiss here. For example, you have two departments of government who are

involved in the administration of our forestry in a lot of respects - for

example, you had the Department of Natural Resources and you had the Department

of Environment, and sometimes we want to make sure that one hand knows what the

other hand is doing. That, of course, was not the case pre-Barry decision. What

the government of the day, in trying to follow through on what the judge

recommended, was to say: Let's get it right this time.

So they went back, there was an extensive overhaul, and what we see here

today is the culmination of that process to hopefully give that flexibility that

we need in government in managing the resources, but at the same time making

sure now that the one hand - for example, the Department of Environment and

Conservation - knows what is going on vis- B -vis

the Department of Natural Resources. That is what a lot of these amendments here

are geared to, so it is nice to see that.

We had cases, for example, where companies were submitting their operational

plans. The Department of Natural Resources might be making decisions about those

operational plans without necessarily the Department of Environment having any

oversight and to see if things were being done right from an environmental

review, or vice versa. You could have had the Department of Environment making

decisions that could impact upon the companies and no feedback between them. So,

that is a matter - it goes beyond housecleaning. This is a matter of proper

protocol, proper communication now being directed between the two departments to

make sure that this type of unnecessary, shall we say, miscommunication does not

happen in the future.

I do appreciate the minister - he offered a briefing here, a technical

briefing, which we took advantage of yesterday with his staff. I find that very

helpful. We all do not know everything about everything, and it is very helpful,

rather than come here into the House and try to decide on your feet, or just

before you get on your feet, what a piece of legislation does or does not say.

It is very helpful to members of this House when you take advantage of these

briefings, because quite often - and, no offence to the ministers, I am sure

most of them are well briefed - quite often there are technical details within

the legislation that even the minister does not have a good understanding of, or

background about, giving you the background as to why we are now here dealing

with that. When you get talking to the people who have lived this for years, and

the experts and the professionals and the bureaucrats in the field, they give

you a much more field-life situation as to why we are here. So, instead of just

dealing with paper and words, and wondering what it is all about, you get a good

background appreciation of what this is all about, and put some real-life

emphasis to what we are here trying to do.

I say to the minister, I thank you very much for the briefing that we had,

and I will certainly take advantage of every opportunity that I can get, any

time a piece of legislation concerns my area of criticism and critique, to make

sure that I am informed so any questions I do have will be of a constructive

nature.

In

summary, I will simply say that I agree with what I have read here. I

think it is a good process to move it forward. Don't mistake it; we will be

back here again. I am sure everything is still not right, and I am sure, with

the turn of time and experience again, that in the future some judge is going to

tell us that you still haven't got it right and we have to come back again.

That does not mean anybody failed. That does not mean anybody did anything

improper. That just means that you did not think about every particular

circumstance at the time, and that is what life is all about.

There is a difference between doing something deliberately or even mistakenly

wrong or without having given proper thought to it. It is something else that

you just could not have reasonably been expected to think of every single

circumstance. That is why everybody working together, the judiciary and the

Legislature and the people in the field, through experience, coming back and

saying: Let's make the changes when and if they are required.

Nobody, I believe, would be objecting to anything that makes common sense and

is going to make our world work better.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further speakers at second reading?

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to speak briefly on the issue of Bill 32,

An Act To Amend The

Forestry Act.

I have to say that the forestry legislation in this Province, and the

operations of forestry in the Province, is probably one of the most complex

regimes that is managed by the government. Many times, Mr. Speaker, most people

in the Province have no idea what the management principles are, in effect, and

how decisions are made, why they are made, and how the use of our forests is

shared within the Province, and the various uses that are undertaken by both the

paper companies, who have specific rights over certain parcels of land that they

have in fee simple grants going back as early as 1905 and 1898, and some timber

leases going back before that. We have licences being granted by the Crown. We

have certain rights being sold and bought several times over the last hundred

years that give, without government's authority, certain rights over parcels

of land, and the management of the forestry is an extremely complex matter.

One example, I guess, of how these matters become issues is only in a time of

crisis. When a paper mill is threatening to change its regime, or close down, or

making demands upon government, we hear all about the regimes, how they work,

and what rights companies have over certain parcels of land. We have crises when

it comes to questions of environmental protection, use of the forest. Cutting,

for example, up in the area of the main river was a major point of controversy

several years ago, and whether or not environmental protections had been

undertaken. There have been matters subject to court cases in the federal court

and in our provincial courts in terms of the access roads. There is an enormous

amount of legislative consequence to forest activities. I do not know if any one

person has a handle on them all. I certainly do not claim to, Mr. Speaker.

We had a situation a couple of years ago - Bill 27 has been talked about an

awful lot in the last number of days. Bill 27, effectively, has the effect of

changing timber leases to Abitibi Consolidated, some of which were ninety-nine

year leases that expired, or would have already expired, some of which are

expiring, or were due to expire, over the next number of years. Bill 27 puts

them all together and says they will all expire on the same date in 2010, I

believe it is.

One other interesting aspect of Bill 27 is that there is a requirement that

there be a public consultation process to take place prior to, in the twelve

months prior to any renewal of these leases, to consider, by communities and

stakeholders -

MR. E. BYRNE: This is Bill 32.

MR. HARRIS: This is Bill 32; the hon. member has it right. The Government

House Leader says, yes, this is Bill 32.

He is the one who has been on the radio and on TV almost every day talking

about Bill 27. If he can talk about it on the radio and on TV all the time, I am

certainly going to talk about it in the House of Assembly, because it is an

important matter, at second reading on this bill, that we have some general

understanding of how our forestry system works in this Province, because we have

a whole series of particular changes here, bits and pieces, changes, nineteen

separate changes to the Forestry Act that affect the environment, that affect

the usage of our timber, that affect whether clear-cutting will or will not take

place in certain areas, it has affects on the minister's power to approve

exchange of timber rights, and all sorts of things that are spelled out here. I

didn't have this technical briefing, Mr. Speaker, wasn't even aware of it,

so I don't know the detail that was made available to the previous speaker as

to what each and every

section of this bill means. So, I want to talk about it

in a general way, and I am talking about it at second reading, which is whether

or not this House should approve, in principle, these amendments to the Forestry

Act.

As I say, the public is hardly ever involved in issues related to this,

except in a time of crisis, if someone is complaining about a particular

environmental consequence of forestry activity, if a community is complaining

that they don't have access to timber for firewood, if a sawmill operator is

complaining that they don't have access to saw logs, if a sawmill is

complaining about the price that they are getting for pulp logs under contracts

with the big paper companies. These are the times when the public hears about

the rules and regulations and how they affect the forestry. The minister is

charged with a big responsibility in getting it right in terms of the Forestry

Act and the legislation that allows -

MR. E. BYRNE: He has no idea (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

MR. HARRIS: While I am trying to speak here, Mr. Speaker, I understand

the Government House Leader is suggesting to members opposite that I have no

idea of the forest management process in the Province, that I don't know

anything about what I am talking about, and that I have no knowledge whatsoever

about the forestry in the Province. Well, I will tell the minister, Mr. Speaker,

I have a very deep knowledge - I don't have the extensive knowledge of the act

that this minister is supposed to have, and I didn't attend the technical

briefing that my friends on this side were offered yesterday. I will say that I

do know we have significant problems in our forestry and it has to do with the

way the forests have been managed by - and I am not putting the blame on this

minister - but by governments of this Province over the years. We have a crisis

in the amount of fiber, the paper companies call it, available to carry out the

paper industry in Newfoundland and Labrador.

We have had significant issues related to environmental issues in terms of

clear-cutting and the consequences for our rivers. We had a situation, Mr.

Speaker, where forestry management plans were not even subject to the

Environment Protection Act up until recently. So, we do have significant public

policy issues that the public are entitled to have a say in, and if the only

people who are allowed to talk about it are the people who have the intimate and

intricate knowledge about it, well, there will not be very many people talking

about forestry in this Province because, as I said in the beginning, it is an

extremely complicated area; complicated enough that, as the minister himself

said, and the previous speaker, the courts have told the government that the

legislation they have does not allow them to do the things they are purporting

to do.

I hope, Mr. Speaker, that this act and the amendments that are being brought

forward do bring about the changes that are necessary to allow the flexibility

to manage the forest properly, that the government feels it needs. I hope that

they are here.

We do have a significant problem across this country, Mr. Speaker, in terms

of ensuring that we do have maximum value from our forests, that in this

Province, in particular, communities can have access to sawlogs, for example,

access to firewood, access to Crown land where necessary, to ensure that their

community's needs are met, and this is a very significant piece of work.

Mr. Speaker, we do need to have a stable and sustainable forestry policy. We

have seen in the past, through the five-year management plans that have been

published by this government, that the prospects for the future mean that there

are going to have to be considerable changes made if we are going to have the

amount of fiber that we need, the amount of forest regeneration that we need, in

order to maintain a viable forestry industry in the Province.

I hope the minister has gotten it right. I do know that significant problems

exist in our industry today, as has been evidenced by decisions made by Abitibi

Consolidated, and ones that they want to make; but I, too, want to say that we,

in this party, strongly supported Bill 27 when it came before the House. We

believe the forestry companies have a strong obligation to the people of this

Province, having been here, in one case - Abitibi Consolidated and its

predecessors - for 100 years, and made very substantial profits for its

shareholders, and continue to do so into the future from the concessions that

were granted to them by governments of the past, and current governments, to

ensure that we have viable industry.

I hope that these changes give the minister the flexibility that is needed to

ensure that - we do not want to put extra burdens on forestry operators, that

are unnecessary. We do want to see some flexibility, but we also have to ensure

that the rights of people who have access to the forest are recognized and

supported, and not taken away by arbitrary acts of government that can happen

from time to time.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, at second reading, in principle, I support

changes to the Forestry Act that will give increased flexibility to the minister

in ensuring, first of all, that forest management plans are prepared that are

appropriate to the timber-cutting regimes that are available, and that you can

combine areas from one forest management plant before another to establish

Annual Allowable Cuts, and not have the kind of rigidity that we have had in the

past.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to speak to Bill 32,

An Act To Amend The Forestry Act.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important, when we are developing any type of

resources in this Province, that we do so, so that it is streamlined through

government departments. I think this bill today is certainly going to enable

Document details

CollectionNewfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
Citation2005-11-24
Typehansard
Volume / chapter2005-11-24
Languageen
Formathtm
SourcePROVINCIAL
Identifier488206f32fd8a84b30a00839f1750c4996554a0f

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (htm).