Third Session, 42nd Parliament

(2022) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Wednesday, March 9, 2022

Afternoon Sitting

Issue No. 169

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements

Fundraising run for Ukraine by Vova Pluzhnikov

S. Bond

Introductions by Members

Tributes

Iwan Edwards

Hon. N. Simons

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Bill 14 — Wildlife Amendment Act, 2022

Hon. K. Conroy

Bill M203 — Assessment (Split Assessment Classification) Amendment Act, 2022

T. Stone

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

District of North Vancouver fire and rescue services

S. Chant

Gorman family business in West Kelowna

B. Stewart

Challenges and appreciation for local government officials and staff

R. Russell

Streeper Kennels racing sled dogs

D. Davies

Business Excellence Awards in Abbotsford and Mission

P. Alexis

Streetohome Foundation

K. Kirkpatrick

Oral Questions

Review panel report on drug toxicity deaths and implementation of recommendations

S. Bond

Hon. J. Horgan

T. Halford

Hon. S. Malcolmson

Drug use deaths and access to safe supply

S. Furstenau

Hon. S. Malcolmson

Review panel report on drug toxicity deaths and implementation of recommendations

T. Stone

Hon. S. Malcolmson

Government action on drug toxicity crisis and activation of Health Committee

K. Kirkpatrick

Hon. J. Horgan

M. de Jong

Motions Without Notice

Membership change to Finance Committee

Hon. M. Farnworth

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation

L. Doerkson

Hon. R. Kahlon

A. Olsen

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 6 — Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2022

Hon. S. Robinson

P. Milobar

R. Leonard

B. Banman

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Labour (continued)

G. Kyllo

Hon. H. Bains

Estimates: Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation (continued)

S. Furstenau

Hon. R. Kahlon

A. Olsen

L. Doerkson

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 9, 2022

The House met at 1:33 p.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: B. Ma.

Introductions by Members

Hon. J. Horgan: It’s a delight to stand here today and introduce two friends of mine

who I get to look up and see face to face. Joining us in the gallery today

is a longtime supporter and friend of mine, a former school board trustee

going back — way, way back — Sharon Wilkinson.

[1:35 p.m.]

Sharon is here with her grandson Max Wilkinson, who goes to Cedar

Hills Elementary. He’s in grade 6 in Cedar Hills Elementary, just down the

street from Reynolds High School. Go Road Runners. I’m sure Max will be

going to Reynolds when he gets to that stage of his education, but today is

his first education in how the Legislature works. I’m absolutely confident

the members on the opposite side will be kind and generous in their

questioning so that we can be fulsome and comprehensive in our

responses.

Would the House please make Sharon and Max very, very

welcome.

D. Davies: I’d like to welcome into the House and introduce a very good friend.

She came to Canada first four years ago — it’s hard to believe that — as an

au pair. She is back visiting us up in Fort St. John all the way from

Willich, Germany.

Would the House make welcome Antonia

Schumacher.

Hon. N. Simons: It’s a pleasure for me to be able to introduce in the House my

elementary school and high school principal. Before you ask, I was an

excellent student. I met him when I was about 11, about 30 years ago. He has

been a very influential person in not just my life but the life of many

young people growing up in Montreal and environs, influenced by his

philosophy on teaching. It’s a just pleasure to have a new Victoria resident

in the chamber to witness debate today.

S. Furstenau: I’m delighted to introduce the MP for Cowichan-Malahat-Langford.

Alistair MacGregor is here. He’d come down for an event that got postponed,

but we enjoyed a nice chat about the value of parliamentary committees and

the importance of democracy.

Would the House please make Alistair most

welcome.

Hon. H. Bains: In the House today — I’m really happy to welcome them — is Jasmeet

Sangha. She’s my executive assistant in and around the constituency and

helps me deliver my duties as Minister of Labour. She is excellent,

excellent at the work that she does.

Also, with her is her good friend and a really good social activist,

Harleen Grewal. She is here also, I think for the first time, to see how

this House works and especially what the question period looks like and

feels like.

Please help me give them a warm welcome.

T. Stone: Today it gives me great pleasure to introduce two guests in the

gallery who are here to watch the introduction of the Assessment (Split

Assessment Classification) Amendment Act, 2022: Mr. Channing Qiam from QV

Cafe and Bakery, a small family-owned and family-run business here in

downtown Victoria; as well as Bev Highton from NAI Commercial real estate,

also from here in Victoria.

I’d ask the House to make them both feel

welcome.

Hon. R. Fleming: It’s an honour to introduce some very special guests who are here with

us today. We have representatives from the executive of the UVic Ukrainian

Students Society, including co-presidents Cassandra Kaminski and Riley Bohle

and secretary Tyan Cherepuschak.

I don’t have to tell people how busy these full-time students are with

their studies, but of course, with the invasion of Ukraine and Putin’s war,

they are now very busy working with the Ukrainian Cultural Centre and the

Ukrainian-Canadian community here in greater Victoria, raising funds for

humanitarian assistance as the crisis grows more and more dire and uniting,

really, all Canadians in this community around the cause of an independent,

free and democratic Ukraine.

I think all members are very appreciative of you taking even more of

your time to come down here to our representative democracy to be here with

us today.

I would ask all members to give these members of the UVic Ukrainian

Students Society a big hand of appreciation.

[1:40 p.m.]

Statements

FUNDRAISING RUN FOR UKRAINE

BY VOVA

PLUZHNIKOV

S. Bond: That’s a perfect segue.

I hope the Speaker will indulge me. I wanted to update the

Legislature on the young man, the student athlete from UNBC, who

yesterday did his run in the city of Prince George. He was running 44

kilometres for 44 million people in Ukraine.

I want you to know that he made the run. Many people from Prince

George, including someone from my team in Prince George, ran various

segments of the 44 kilometres with Vova.

The most exciting part — and I’m sure Vova is quite overwhelmed by

this — is that he had a goal to raise funds to support his family and

others in Ukraine through the Red Cross. I just checked on the latest

amount, and I’m delighted to update MLAs. His run is approaching a

fundraising level of $59,000.

Congratulations to Vova.

Introductions by Members

M. Dykeman: I have two introductions today. The first one is a birthday in my

riding — a 100th birthday, actually. Susanna Wiebe, who’s watching at home

today, is celebrating her 100th birthday. I was wondering if the House could

please join me in wishing her a very happy birthday.

The second is James Spence. His family let me know that he is

celebrating his 80th birthday and was going to be watching today. I was

wondering if the House could join me in wishing him a very happy 80th

birthday also.

Hon. N. Cullen: I’d also like to welcome a dear friend, the Member of Parliament for

Cowichan-Malahat-Langford. Alistair MacGregor and I had the dear opportunity

to serve together for years in another place. He is, I believe, the Public

Safety critic for the federal New Democrats, so one can imagine he’s been

quite busy. We thank him for his tireless work. Would the House join me in

welcoming Alistair to our version of a free and democratic

society.

J. Sims: It’s a pleasure today to rise in the House to introduce Tara Cavanagh.

She is sitting up there. This is her first visit to our

Legislature.

Tara is a staff representative for the United Steelworkers union in

Langley. She’s in town today to meet with workers at the only unionized

corporate Starbucks location here in Victoria. About 30 workers from the

Douglas Street Starbucks voted to join the USW after an infuriating incident

sparked an organizing effort. Workers were angered when their manager forced

a barista to remove a face shield used to protect them from passing COVID-19

to an immunocompromised roommate. Tara led the bargaining efforts in

Starbucks and achieved a historic first collective agreement for the

workers.

I would ask the House to please welcome Tara Cavanagh to the

Legislature.

I have two introductions. My second one is, of course, that it’s a

pleasure to welcome back into this House Brett Barden. However, he doesn’t

need much of an introduction if you check Hansard . Brett is an

incredibly talented and motivated person. He is a stellar political

organizer in Surrey who has worked nearly two decades to elect B.C. NDP MLAs

to this House, MPs to Ottawa and members at the municipal level.

Brett spent over five years serving as a constituency assistant to a

former member of this House, Sue Hammell, in Surrey–Green Timbers. I know

Sue always spoke very highly of his work ethic and dedication. He has served

as a provincial rep and been very active. I have been privileged to work

with Brett at the federal and provincial levels, and he’s been with me right

from the start of my political career.

Today Brett is fighting to improve the lives of workers as a

communications staff representative with the United Steelworkers in western

Canada and the territories. I would also ask the House to please welcome

Brett Barden back to the Legislature.

T. Shypitka: It’s an absolute thrill to introduce an old friend of mine that’s

sitting up in the gallery here today: Mike Walls. I went to school with

Mike, did a lot of things through high school and through older years. We

won’t quite get into that here.

[1:45 p.m.]

He’s a true Kootenay guy. He’s an avid hiker. I’ve been on a lot of

hikes with Mike over the years. He’s actually an avid mountain biker. I

believe he won a gold medal at the B.C. Senior Games. If you ever find

yourself in the Kootenays, and you like to bike and you like to hike, just

call Mike. Would the House please welcome Mike Walls.

R. Russell: I don’t like to speak in absolutes, but I feel like it’s fair to say

that I have three women that are most important in my life, being my

daughter, Juno; my wife, Christine; and my mom. Both Christine, my wife, and

my mom’s birthdays are today.

First to Christine: thank you. I think, as of today, you have probably

officially spent half your life with me, so thank you for that. I appreciate

everything that you’re carrying for us.

My mom taught me my sense of wonder from when I was a child through to

the final days, recently, as her mind was addled by the tangles of

Alzheimer’s.

I share a few words from a book of her poetry that she had

marked.

“When it is over, I want to say: all my life

I was a bride

married to amazement.

I was the bridegroom taking the world into my

arms.

When it’s over, I don’t want to wonder

if I’ve made of my life

something particular and real.

I don’t want to find myself sighing and

frightened

or full of argument.

I don’t want to end up simply having

visited this world.”

It’s a poem by Mary Oliver, “When Death Comes.”

Hon. N. Simons: I neglected to mention that my school principal’s name is Philip

Baugniet. So I failed the first assignment.

Tributes

IWAN EDWARDS

Hon. N. Simons: Now I would like to pay tribute to a colleague of his and a

teacher of mine. Last week, our country lost a legend in the Canadian

choir music scene.

Iwan Edwards was the conductor of the Montreal Symphony Orchestra

chorus for 21 years; associate professor of music at the Schulich School

of Music at McGill University; founder and conductor of Concerto Della

Donna, the Canadian Chamber Choir and the St. Lawrence Choir; and a

recipient of the Order of Canada. But before all that, when he first

came to Canada from Wales in 1965, Iwan Edwards was a beloved elementary

and high school choir conductor.

After teaching at Lachine High, in 1979, he was re­cruited

to teach at a new school in downtown Montreal, called FACE (Fine Arts

Core Education), where the focus was on music, art and drama. It was the

brainchild of Mr. Baugniet.

Iwan Edwards loved music, especially choral music. Of course, his

enthusiasm made us all love it too. Everyone in my school was in choir.

People taking the bus along Sherbrooke Street in Montreal would often

hear students breaking out into four-part harmony in the back of the

bus, because in those days, there wasn’t much else to do on the

bus.

Iwan Edwards was a mentor to many and a role model and an

inspiration to those who were fortunate enough to sing or play under his

baton. He was a colleague of my father’s at McGill, and most my siblings

shared a stage with him at one time or another. He demanded the best

from everyone in his choir: perseverance, focus, discipline and, of

course, fun. Those were the hallmarks of his teaching.

He took the FACE travel choir to a music festival in Wales, a

country where everyone sings in a choir. The FACE choir enthralled

appreciative crowds. He also coached chamber music, including the high

school woodwind quintet that included my sister and four other girls.

They won first prize.

He conducted many memorable performances with choirs of all ages

from the great halls in Europe to Carnegie Hall. Many remember the

performance of the Mozart requiem at a memorial concert for the victims

of the Montreal massacre, attended by the mayor and the parents of

Genevieve Bergeron, who sang in the choirs and was a member of that

award-winning woodwind quintet.

[1:50 p.m.]

Mr. Edwards knew the power of music to inspire, to comfort and to

give hope. Mr. Edwards has been remembered publicly by so many, with

beautiful tributes to his character and his accomplishments.

I join them in expressing my condolences to his family and all who

were touched by his life and his music.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

BILL 14 — WILDLIFE

AMENDMENT ACT,

Hon. K. Conroy presented a message from Her Honour the

Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Wildlife Amendment Act,

Hon. K. Conroy: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time

now.

I am pleased to introduce Bill 14, the Wildlife Amendment Act,

2022. This bill proposes amendments to the Wildlife Act that represent

key early reconciliation-focused steps towards addressing First Nations’

concerns.

Wildlife is vitally important to Indigenous peoples, but for too

long their voices were not being heard in how wildlife is managed. The

Wildlife Act has not been amended to address Indigenous values since

This government co-developed the legislation with the Indigenous

members of the First Nations–B.C. Wildlife and Habitat Conservation

Forum to address matters of central importance to First Nations. The

proposed amendments support better incorporation of Indigenous knowledge

and statutory decision–making and establish a process by which the

province can align its laws with hunting agreements that have long

existed between First Nations. This bill will make explicit that

statutory decision–makers are obligated to consider relevant Indigenous

knowledge and that Indigenous knowledge is to be upheld and

protected.

Additionally, the proposed amendments authorize government to

enter into sheltering agreements with First Nations, which will

recognize the traditional practice where a host First Nation permits

members of another First Nation to harvest wildlife within the host’s

traditional territory.

The bill will ensure that First Nations’ interests are

accommodated through agreement and ensure that First Nation hunters are

not subject to improper compliance and enforcement actions.

Overall, the proposed legislation lays the groundwork towards

addressing key concerns from First Nations and, ultimately, aligning the

current Wildlife Act with the declaration on the rights of Indigenous

peoples. In collaboration with Indigenous peoples, this government will

continue the important work of realigning provincial laws with the

declaration on the rights of Indigenous peoples.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is the first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Hon. K. Conroy: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 14, Wildlife Amendment Act, 2022, introduced, read a first time

and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next

sitting of the House after today.

BILL M203 — ASSESSMENT

(SPLIT ASSESSMENT

CLASSIFICATION)

AMENDMENT ACT, 2022

T. Stone presented a bill intituled Assessment (Split Assessment

Classification) Amendment Act, 2022.

T. Stone: I move that the bill intituled the Assessment (Split Assessment

Classification) Amendment Act, 2022, of which notice has been given in

my name on the order paper be introduced and read a first time

now.

I’m pleased to introduce this bill today for the fifth time. While

businesses struggle to stay afloat as they continue to feel the impacts

of COVID-19, a pandemic, they’re also being hit hard with dramatically

increasing property taxes on the airspace over their heads.

Adding insult to injury, this is the last straw for many small

businesses as they make the painful decision to lay off employees and

close their doors permanently. Mom-and-pop cafés, retailers and

restaurants are disappearing, changing our neighbourhoods forever. As

the housing crisis spreads to the rest of the province, even more

businesses could soon be facing these dramatic tax increases.

A number of years ago, a working group including Vancouver,

Burnaby, North Van, Richmond, Surrey, West Van and Coquitlam, among

others, came up with a solution to this problem. These local governments

are supported by a broad coalition of stakeholders, including arts,

culture, neighbourhood and small business organizations, as well as the

UBCM and the B.C. Chamber.

The solution proposed includes two parts. First, the creation of a

new commercial property sub class for the airspace above small

businesses and other affected organizations, and second, maximum

flexibility for local governments to set the property tax rate on this

new sub class as they see fit from zero dollars to just below the

existing commercial property tax rate.

The bill provides for the exact solution that local governments

and small business organizations have asked for: an optional tool that

they can choose to use or not use at a rate that they determine makes

the most sense for each unique situation that they’re trying to address.

It will also eliminate the nonsensical application of the speculation

tax on the airspace over the heads of these same struggling small

businesses.

Unlike the government’s interim permissive tax exemption tool that

has still not been used by even one municipality in B.C., we urge the

government to call our bill for debate so a lifeline can be thrown to

small businesses hit hard with skyrocketing property taxes.

Mr. Speaker: The question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

T. Stone: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

[1:55 p.m.]

Bill M203, Assessment (Split Assessment Classifica­tion)

Amendment Act, 2022, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed

on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House

after today.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

DISTRICT OF NORTH VANCOUVER

FIRE AND RESCUE

SERVICES

S. Chant: I’d like to acknowledge that I’m speaking from the unceded

territory of the

Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ-speaking people,

specifically the Esquimalt and the Songhees and, also, that my riding is

in the unceded territories of the Squamish and the

Tsleil-Waututh.

Today I want to talk about a group of people that I enjoy very,

very much, the North Van district fire department. Every time they show

up somewhere — except at fires, of course — there is a lot of fun

happening. They’re doing safety drills. They’re checking places out to

make sure that they’re fire-safe. They’re making sure that people are

getting in or out of something safely and successfully.

They are also well known for their expertise in the urban,

suburban and rural interface for fire. They have both structural fire to

deal with and wildfire to deal with. So they do a lot of work in a whole

variety of ways. They also have put together a partnership with West

Vancouver and North Vancouver city where they cover the whole area, as

well as helping out right up the coast.

The North Vancouver fire department district is looking forward to

their new training centre at the Maplewood fire and rescue centre where

they’re going to be combining two of their fire halls and also their

very elderly training centre, which has been used for many things.

They’ll be opening that up hopefully in 2023.

They also are doing something which is perhaps a little bit

unique, and I’ll get my colleague to clarify with me. They are seeking

international accreditation within the firefighting world.

Chief Brian Hutchinson ably leads this group, and they do a

tremendous job. I just want to say thank you to them.

GORMAN FAMILY BUSINESS

IN WEST

KELOWNA

B. Stewart: Today I rise to recognize the forestry family with deep roots in

West Kelowna whose contributions have been instrumental in making West

Kelowna what it is today.

Ross and John Gorman were brothers who originally planned on being

fruit growers; however, after a harsh winter in 1950 which decimated

their crop, they decided to transition their operations and started

making wooden fruit boxes out of their shed on their family property.

What started as a temporary project turned out to be a full-time

business of its own: Gorman Bros. Lumber. After last year, the Gorman

Group celebrated its 70th anniversary.

The Gorman brothers were known not just for the quality of their

products that were produced, but the way that they cared for their

employees. That care was reciprocated. Once when the mill was forced to

shut down temporarily because the project was running behind, their

employees got together to think about out how they could

help.

One snowy Saturday morning 62 employees showed up to get the mill

back up and running, volunteering their time simply to show their

appreciation. People remember Ross and John coming to the mill with

looks of shock on their faces and tears in their eyes.

I first met Ross when we were working on a fundraiser for the

Kelowna General Hospital for the Brookhaven extended care facility in

the west side, and I was struck by his incredible care and dedication to

his family, employees and the community.

Today the Gorman Group employs over 1,000 people at four different

locations. They plant three million trees a year and during the pandemic

contributed $50,000 in support of each of the four communities that they

operate in.

Although John and Ross have since passed away, their legacy of

care and community support continues through the business which they

began in West Kelowna some 70 years ago.

CHALLENGES AND APPRECIATION FOR

LOCAL GOVERNMENT

OFFICIALS AND STAFF

R. Russell: I’ll try to keep it together for this one. Six weeks ago a man

walked into the village office in Keremeos brandishing a sledgehammer

and a knife, attempting to assault multiple people in the building. On a

cold November evening in Vanderhoof, the mayor there had a demand letter

presented to him at his home by a group opposed to provincial health

orders.

[2:00 p.m.]

I could go on with a long list of bullying and harassment of local

government elected officials and municipal or regional district staff,

threats of having homes burnt down or direct violence, partners and

children accosted while out doing errands. I know, from personal

conversations, the physical and mental health toll these challenges have

put on these people.

As Fernie CAO Michael Boronowski put it: “It’s unacceptable that

we’ve had to speak to our loved ones, our children, about what car to

watch out for or when not to go outside. It’s unacceptable that we have

been followed from workplace to workplace, recorded while we work or in

our homes and yards and followed as private citizens as we try to go

about our lives in the community.”

Of the seven municipalities in the Boundary, South Okanagan and

Similkameen, data from a couple of years ago show that none of these

seven mayors made over $30,000. These community champions are not in it

for the money.

The last two years of pandemic and disaster have been exhausting

for all of us, no doubt. But our local government teams have been under

fire, in many cases for a regulatory environment they don’t control,

under an enormous amount of pressure to support their communities, and

in an environment of operational capacity that continues to be strained.

They could all use a little respite and a little gratitude.

I want to recognize Mayors Coyne, Bauer, Johansen, McKortoff,

Fromme, Noel and Taylor. I want to recognize the EA directors, the

councillors and the municipal staff and regional district teams. I want

to recognize the weight that they are all carrying on behalf of our

communities.

Across B.C., we have some fantastic people stepping up on behalf

of their communities. Let’s remember to give them thanks. They do so

much, especially in crisis.

STREEPER KENNELS RACING SLED DOGS

D. Davies: British Columbia has a world-class champion professional

dog-racing kennel in the town of Fort Nelson. Streeper Kennels was

established in the early 1970s. Typically they would have a kennel of

about 130 dogs and raise around 50 puppies a year. It takes about two

years for a puppy to develop into a racing dog, and during that time,

they require an incredible amount of attention until they become a

professional racer.

Longtime resident Buddy Streeper has been racing since he was 16

years old and comes from a family of sled dog racers. It was his

father’s passion, Buddy’s passion — in fact, his whole family’s passion.

Buddy’s wife, Lina, has also been a very successful sled dogger. She has

had many races, with many wins under her belt as well. Recently their

daughters Alva and Clara Streeper have placed in the Junior North

American Championships in North Pole, Alaska.

Buddy has raced hundreds of times and bred upwards of a thousand

dogs over that time from his kennels, located just outside of Fort

Nelson. His racing season typically runs from January to April, and he

jams as many competitions in as he can over that time — usually around

12 or 14, but as many as 20. However, like everything, COVID has

interrupted that quite a bit over the last couple of years.

Now the big news. I’d like to congratulate Buddy Streeper and his

18 dogs for winning his ninth Fur Rendezvous Open World Champion Sled

Dog Race in Anchorage, Alaska recently. This race puts sprint mushing

teams against each other over three days for a total of 75 miles,

starting in downtown Anchorage. The course, lined with thousands of

spectators, winds through the city, the forest, the streets and ends up

back downtown. With this win, Streeper is just one Fur Rondy title away

from tying the current record of ten, so I’m looking forward to next

year’s results.

On behalf of this House, my riding, British Columbians and

Canadians: well done, Buddy, on representing Canada.

BUSINESS EXCELLENCE AWARDS

IN ABBOTSFORD AND

MISSION

P. Alexis: I want to acknowledge that I am speaking to you from the

traditional territories of the

Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ-​speaking

people, the Songhees and Esquimalt First Nations.

Today I would like to highlight the achievements of local

businesses in Abbotsford and Mission. Business owners have proven

resilient. I would like to extend my sincere congratulations to the

following award-winners from the chambers of commerce’s Business

Excellence Awards.

[2:05 p.m.]

From Abbotsford: Home Based Business Excellence award, the Phone

Doctor; Agricultural and Agri-Business Excellence award, AgPro West

Supply Ltd.; Consumer Services Excellence award, Stan Wiebe Real Estate

Services of Re/Max Little Oak Realty; Entrepreneur of the Year, Amanda

Mango; Non-Profit Organization of the Year, Communitas Supportive Care

Society; and Corporate Social Responsibility, Long Board

Products.

From the north side of the Fraser, the member for Maple

Ridge–Mission is absolutely…. We are both excited to announce and

celebrate the following: Customer Service Excellence Award, Arnold’s

Shoe Repair; Exceptional Business of the Year, Lacey Developments Ltd.;

Resiliency and Recovery Award, Arch-Way Dance; Marketing and

Communications Award, the Mission City Farmers Market; Non-Profit

Organization of the Year Award, St. Joseph’s Food Bank; Small Business

of the Year award, Alderwood Apparel; the U40 Entrepreneur of the Year,

Cyprys Wales of Art of Alchemy Hair and Beauty Salon. For the

prestigious President’s Award, Vik Gill, owner of the Fitness Lab, was

the recipient.

Congratulations to everyone and all the businesses that contribute

to our vibrant community.

STREETOHOME FOUNDATION

K. Kirkpatrick: In 2008, while part of the Real Estate Foundation of B.C., I had

the great honour to witness the start of the Streetohome Foundation. As

many of you know, Streetohome changes lives and builds a future for many

vulnerable British Columbians. They work with the private sector to find

new funding and innovative ideas and then collaborate with public and

non-profit groups to find new solutions for homelessness.

Streetohome believes we need citizens to thrive. For people to

thrive, they need to have personal, gender and cultural safety and

inclusiveness, community integration and a sense of belonging.

Streetohome supports this through providing shelter, supportive or

recovery housing, health and wellness, employment support and legal

supports. Along with the city of Vancouver and the Vancouver Foundation,

Streetohome funds the Vancouver rent bank, which provides interest-free

loans for people in danger of eviction or essential utility

cutoff.

The success of all non-profits relies heavily on the work of the

board members. That’s why I am so proud of the work that Kevin Falcon

has done over the past eight years as a member of the Streetohome

Foundation, which has raised over $30 million working with different

levels of government to help construct over 3,000 units of housing for

the homeless. Kevin is proud to have served on the board with former NDP

Premier Mike Harcourt, and they share a passion for departing from the

status quo ap­proaches to dealing with the hard to

house.

Streetohome has recently opened the Recovery Café in East

Vancouver, which provides a gathering place and supportive environment

for those who are currently in recovery to help them find a support

network, build employment skills and access services.

Thank you to all board members who work on behalf of their

non-profits, and thank you to Kevin Falcon for the commitment he has

shown to housing for the most vulnerable and bringing that experience to

this House.

Mr. Speaker: A reminder to the member and to all members that all these

statements are to be non-partisan.

Oral Questions

REVIEW PANEL REPORT ON

DRUG TOXICITY DEATHS AND

IMPLEMENTATION OF RECOMMENDATIONS

S. Bond: After reviewing 6,007 deaths, each one a person loved by family,

by friends and communities, a death review panel into the opioid crisis

confirms that the NDP response is failing.

I quote from the panel report: “…lack of coordinated services,

gaps in service delivery…long wait times, eligibility for services

inconsistent with people’s lived experiences.” This report established

23 recommendations and specific timelines for a provincial emergency

response, including a 30-, 60- and 90-day action plan. But this morning

the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions would not commit to

accepting a single recommendation in this report.

[2:10 p.m.]

Perhaps the Premier will get up this afternoon and do the right

thing and commit to accepting each recommendation and the specific

deadlines for implementing them.

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the Leader of the Opposition for her question. I also, of

course, want to thank the panel for their work and the ongoing work,

quite frankly, of the coroner’s office and public health officials here

in British Columbia.

Since 2016, British Columbia has seen an unacceptable number of

deaths. We’ve talked about this for many years now. We continue to do

our level best to make progress. I’ll remind the member that, when

asked, the panel’s response, in unison…. When they were asked, “Whose

responsibility is this?” their response was: “It’s all of our

responsibility.”

I know the Leader of the Opposition takes this very seriously, as

do her colleagues and the members of the Third Party as well. We have

been doing what we can to beef up programs, to make sure that we’re

working on harm reduction, we’re working on prevention, we’re working on

treatment, and we’re working, most importantly, on

enforcement.

Oftentimes we lose sight of the fact that it is heinous

individuals within our community that are bringing these deaths to our

doorsteps, to families right across British Columbia. So although I have

not had an opportunity to review the work that just came in today, I can

commit to ensuring that we’ll do everything we can to protect British

Columbians now and into the future.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Official Opposition, supplemental.

S. Bond: Well, the Premier’s answer fails to reflect the magnitude of the

report that was delivered to his government today. It basically said, in

unequivocal terms, that the approach that’s being used is failing. It

went even a step further, because what it did was it laid out a road map

with specific dates and recommendations for this Premier to stand up and

accept.

To suggest that everyone’s doing all that they can…. In fact, the

Premier has refused to engage in the way that the leader of the Green

Party and I have suggested on multiple occasions.

Let me quote, for the Premier, again from the report. “The public

health crisis is now in its sixth year and continues to worsen. Public

health efforts to date have not been successful.” Six thousand and seven

lives lost and seven every single day, likely including today, tomorrow

and the next day. It is now five years into the creation of this

ministry, and this report says the government approach has failed and a

new one is needed.

The Premier has an opportunity today. Recommendation No. 2 is to

develop a 30/60/90-day illicit drug toxicity action plan with ongoing

monitoring. The recommendation is very specific, and in fact, it calls

for that to take place by May 9.

Will the Premier today, in this Legislature, commit that by May 7,

he will stand in this House and table the 30/60/90-day action plan that

is called for by the death review panel to deal with what is an urgent

crisis in British Columbia?

Hon. J. Horgan: Again, I thank the member for her passion and her commitment to

these issues. I know they’re heartfelt and sincere. I also know that she

understands that many of the tools that we need to develop and have been

highlighted by the panel and others in the not-too-distant past — and

some as recently as this week — are to make sure that we’re putting in

place the treatment capacity to address the challenges in communities,

and that takes time.

It doesn’t take 30, 60, 90 days. It takes time to establish

treatment facilities right across British Columbia in our urban centres,

in our rural centres. It takes time to bring on the health care

providers to provide the services that we will need in complex care

environments, which did not exist until just recently, since the change

of government.

This is not a time for us to decide what we can do in the next

week. It’s a time to continue forward with the plans that we have in

place, a four-pillared approach that has, I believe, support across this

House and certainly across the province, to make sure we’re putting in

place the people and the resources and the infrastructure to help those

who desperately need it.

We need assistance from the federal government. We need assistance

from health care workers. We need assistance from communities. All of us

working together will get to where we need to be. But I’m afraid that I

can’t make a commitment to a document that I’ve not yet read. We’ll be

doing that in short order, and we’ll get back to this House as quickly

as we can.

[2:15 p.m.]

T. Halford: Well, British Columbians need a commitment from this Premier and

this government, and right now, they’re absolutely failing on that. What

we heard from the Premier in the previous question is that the answer to

that recommendation is no. The answer is no. This report conclusively

shows that this government is failing. And I quote: “Initiatives have

not been sufficient to stop the rising death toll, and a new approach is

required.”

When someone reaches out for help, they need to be able to receive

that help. It needs to be affordable. This government needs to accept

all 23 of the panel’s recommendations and act immediately to ensure that

a coherent, provincewide strategy is adopted to stop this crisis. Over

the next 30 days, we are on target to lose 200 British Columbians. We

need action, and we need it today.

I will ask the Premier this. When we go to recommendation 3, which

says, “By April 11 of this year, the province will prioritize completion

of the Pathway to Hope,” will the Premier commit today that by April 11,

that recommendation will be followed through?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Pathway to Hope is a ten-year plan which is three years in, so I

certainly will not commit to the member’s characterization of that

recommendation. There is….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: The minister will continue.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Implementing Pathway to Hope is a ten-year project which began in

2018. We are well on our way, and we just issued a report on Pathway to

Hope implementation just a couple of months ago. The member can read

that, and I’m certainly willing to walk through it with him.

The work that is underway by our government has been overcome by

the increases in toxicity of drugs, as the coroner has mentioned. To

have fentanyl contamination in 4 to 8 percent of toxic drug overdose

deaths in the months before the pandemic began and to now have

concentration of fentanyl between 24 and 28 percent in just the month of

December….

It is a colossal increase, despite everything that people on the

front line, all of the new programs that our government has added, all

of the new programs which the death review panel’s report today

reinforces are urgent and are needed. That is the work that we are doing

right now.

I also take the coroner’s recognition that the colossal increase

in toxicity of the illicit drug supply means that we have to continue to

hit this terrible crisis and this terrible loss of life with everything

we have. That is the work that we are doing, yesterday, today, tomorrow

and for the weeks and months and years to come.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Surrey–White Rock, supplemental.

T. Halford: The issue is that this Premier — this government, this minister —

has failed to even act on the recommendations that they received from a

2017 report. So forgive me if the minister’s answers give us little

comfort on this side of the House that she will follow through on the

recommendations that have been put forward today.

Today’s report was very clear about where the problem lies: a

“lack of coordinated services, gaps in service delivery, long wait

times, eligibility for services inconsistent with people’s lived

experiences.”

This government has failed to act fast. It has failed to act on

safer supply. It has failed to properly expand recovery and treatment

options. The coroner says: “The Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions

last July gave direction to every health authority to establish a safe

supply program. To date, there has been virtually no activity.” Those

are not our words. Those are the words from the chief coroner in today’s

report. This government is failing on this file every single

day.

My question is to the Premier. Will he commit today to having a

practice standard for those working the front line to help patients by

September 9, as asked for in the report that was put forward

today?

[2:20 p.m.]

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Let me turn to the member’s question about the 2018 death review

panel, which he describes as unfulfilled. I will remind the members of

this House that it was Kevin Falcon as Minister of Deregulation who

deregulated the treatment bed system.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: I’m speaking directly to….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, order. Order.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Okay, Members. Members will come to order now. Members.

The minister will continue.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: The death review panel in 2018 found serious flaws in the

treatment and recovery system — absolutely agreed.

Since then, and as has been reported to the coroner, we have

amended the Community Care and Assisted Living Act. We have implemented

new regulations to increase oversight of treatment and recovery services

to ensure health and safety standards. We’ve done more consultation with

people who use substances — and lived experiences — including funding to

health authorities to include peer coordinator positions and the

establishment of a provincial peer network to inform how those treatment

beds are operated.

We’ve educated emergency department workers about opioid use

disorder to tackle stigma and treatment barriers in their apartments and

developed emergency department follow-up following an overdose. Plus

we’ve expanded the opioid agonist treatment program — all on the

recommendation of the death review panel.

We’ve closed two loopholes in the regulation of treatment and

recovery beds, and we have more work ahead of us, as the Premier has

asked me to transfer oversight of treatment and recovery beds to my

ministry. That work is underway — all consistent with the

recommendations of the 2018 death review panel.

DRUG USE DEATHS

AND ACCESS TO SAFE

SUPPLY

S. Furstenau: I just want to talk about what we’ve heard so far in this chamber

on this topic: “We’re doing our level best. It’s all of our

responsibility. We’re doing everything we can. There’s a treatment

capacity issue. It’s been overcome by the increase of toxicity of

drugs.”

Then we just heard, from the Minister of Mental Health and

Addictions, a whole bunch, a list, of inputs. The report from the

coroner today focused on outcomes, and the outcome is seven people dying

every day.

I’m trying to think of an analogy that would make sense here. It’s

like houses are burning down every day, and the response is not to use

fire hydrants and water hoses to put those fires out. It’s to say:

“We’re going to develop an entire network of fire halls and an education

program and really explain to people how not to have their houses burn

down.” But in the meantime, the houses will continue to burn

down.

For six years, we have been in a public health emergency. The

illicit drug supply is killing more people than homicide, suicide and

car crashes combined. It’s an emergency.

We talk about pathways to hope and continuum of care. The Premier

indicated he hasn’t read the report yet, but I hope and expect that he

would have seen the first line of the press release from the coroner’s

office, which said: “We are calling for increased access to a safer

supply of drugs.”

It is the poisonous drugs that are killing people. We dance around

this by wanting to talk about continuum of care and mental health and

addictions and opioid use disorder. People are dying every day because

of poisonous drugs, and there is a solution that has been put in front

of this government over and over and over again.

Will the Premier commit to what the coroner is asking and create

an immediate access to a safer supply of drugs?

[2:25 p.m.]

Hon. S. Malcolmson: The answer is yes. British Columbia is the first and only province

in Canada where you can get prescribed safe supply, which is the tool

that a province has within a federal framework.

That work began in 2020. It was expanded and revised based on what

we heard from clinicians and people who use drugs — that they needed

more kinds of drugs and more access points. We worked extremely hard

across all partners — health authorities, people who use drugs,

clinicians, paramedics, NGOs working on the front line.

Last summer I stood with Bonnie Henry, and we announced the

rollout of a second phase of prescribed safe supply. We’ve added new

medications to that. We’re working with prescribers, with the colleges,

every day. We’ve directed the health authorities to implement it across

all programs. We need to do more, clearly and obviously, because the

interventions we’ve made have been outpaced by the increased toxicity of

drugs.

We’re hitting this across the continuum: more treatment beds, more

types of overdose prevention sites. We went from one to 40 over the term

of our government. We are connecting people with medication-assisted

treatment with prescribed safe supply, because that’s what we can

do.

We’re determined to do more, in every form, because this is an

emergency that requires we bring all tools to it. That’s what we’re

doing, offering people options. We’re determined to do more. We have to

do more.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Third Party, supplemental.

S. Furstenau: I’ll note that the minister used “prescribed safe supply,” which

is not what is being called for in the coroner’s report. The prescribed

safe supply isn’t working, because more people are dying.

That is the measure. That is the measure that we should be looking

at. Is what is being done succeeding in having fewer people die? The

answer year over year is: no, it is not. To stand up and say we’re just

going to keep doing the same things and expect different outcomes is

becoming deeply distressing.

The current drug policy framework is rooted in prohibition,

criminalization and marginalization. These policies fail to afford basic

dignity to people who use drugs by forcing them to access a chaotic,

poisonous, unregulated supply that is killing them. The government’s

alternative is treatment beds. Get clean. Get fixed. This actually adds

to the stigma that makes this more deadly.

We can freely purchase drugs, all of us. We can go to the liquor

store and purchase drugs. We can buy nicotine. We can buy cannabis. We

can buy over-the-counter medication. Those are all regulated. I can be

assured that when I get a bottle of Advil, if take the appropriate dose,

it is going to relieve pain and not kill me.

Mr. Speaker: Question, Member.

S. Furstenau: My question is again to the Premier. Why does his government lack

the political will to introduce non-medicalized safe supply?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: We do not lack the political will. We lack the jurisdiction. That

is a federal matter, and we are doing everything we can with urgency

within our provincial authority.

I feel the same urgency that the coroner feels and that the death

review panel feels. Absolutely. We know there is more to be done. The

terrible loss of life is testament to that. But we have continued to

evolve our response. To say that this is a single push…. The member

knows that we are not advocating for treatment only.

At the start of the public health emergency, we focused on scaling

up overdose prevention: more teams, more naloxone, more overdose

prevention sites, building health authority capacity. Then we added in

medication-assisted treatment. Then later, we gave the permission — the

only place in Canada — to allow nurses to prescribe medication-assisted

treatment.

We added in low-barrier TiOAT programs. We then complemented that

by scaling up overdose response, community outreach teams,

community-driven programs. We added in inhalation overdose prevention

sites. Then we patched the envelope again with nurse prescribing, then

even further with prescribed safe supply.

We’re the only province in the country to apply for

decriminalization of people who use drugs. None of this has been enough.

So we continue to do more, and we’ll continue to add more tools as they

are recommended within our area of provincial authority.

[2:30 p.m.]

I’m so encouraged that I now have a federal counterpart, that the

Prime Minister has mirrored what the Premier did in dedicating and

establishing a dedicated Minister of Mental Health and Addictions, and

I’ll look to my federal counterpart to look at federal tools on safe

supply.

REVIEW PANEL REPORT ON

DRUG TOXICITY DEATHS AND

IMPLEMENTATION OF RECOMMENDATIONS

T. Stone: There was one paragraph among many in today’s report that I think

lays out the scope and the context of the human tragedy that is before

us and has impacted so many. It says:

“Although this report lists many statistics, those statistics

represent individual lives. These are people who resided across British

Columbia in communities large and small, people dealing with pain and

trauma, people living in poverty or employed and supporting families,

people young and old, healthy and unwell, people from diverse ethnic

backgrounds — people just like everyone else. The continued toll of

unintentional drug toxicity deaths has created devastating effects on

the families, friends and communities of the deceased and has reduced

life expectancy for British Columbians.”

It’s over 6,000 people who have tragically lost their lives. We’re

on pace for over 200 this month alone. So one would think that the

deepest sense of urgency would compel this government, after five years

in office, to at least say this morning or in question period here

today: “Yes, government will accept these recommendations, and yes,

government will work as hard as possible to implement them all within

the prescribed timelines.” But that is not what we’re hearing today from

this government.

Five years after the creation of a specific ministry for mental

health and addictions, it’s clear that things are worse, not better. To

take just one example, the previous panel, in 2017, recommended

regulation of treatment and recovery services and standardized

reporting. But here we are five years later with another death panel

report concluding that this was not done. On page 36 of today’s report,

recommendation No. 3 calls for establishing an evidence-based continuum

of care.

My question to the Premier is this. Will the Premier commit today

that his government will meet the April 11 deadline set out in this

report for actions that prioritize a real continuum of care?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Our government has been acting to build out the continuum of care,

has been acting to regulate treatment beds, has been acting to add

hundreds of new addiction and recovery treatment beds — a doubling of

youth treatment beds — while also building out prescribed safe supply,

while also going from one supervised consumption site when we took

government, one in 2016, to over 40 now.

At every step…. We need to do more, clearly. That is the work that

is funded in our budget, an unprecedented spend on mental health and

addictions. It’s work that we’ve been focused on every day.

I appreciate and I agree with the panel’s direction on the ways

that we need to further add to the treatment and recovery system, to

further expand — with the support of the colleges and the prescribers,

all the people they had on the panel — to be able to connect more people

with prescribed safe supply and to use the tools that we have within our

provincial powers.

We’ll continue to work with the coroner’s office, as we do

monthly, taking the advice from the coroner and all the practitioners

and people that led into that death panel review — the health authority

reps, the First Nations Health Authority, the colleges, the pharmacists,

everybody that has a hand in this work. We need all hands on deck, and

that’s the advice we’re taking.

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON

DRUG TOXICITY CRISIS AND

ACTIVATION OF HEALTH COMMITTEE

K. Kirkpatrick: The death review panel has made 23 recommendations that need to be

implemented. The committee has laid out clear deadlines for the province

to meet over the next 30, 60 and 90 days. The ministry’s failure to

implement the last panel’s recommendations does not give anyone

confidence.

[2:35 p.m.]

The Health Committee has members. It just needs the okay from the

Premier to meet. We’re at an urgent point in this crisis, with nearly

seven people dying every day. We need, as the minister herself said, an

all-hands-on-deck approach. The public expects us to be working together

on this public health crisis.

Will the Premier activate the all-party committee on Health and

allow them to work to ensure that all 23 of these recommendations are

implemented on the timelines laid out in today’s report?

Hon. J. Horgan: I appreciate the question from the member. It does speak to the

need for all of us to try and get back on the same page. I know that no

one benefits, no British Columbians benefit, from contemptuous questions

and contemptuous responses. No one wants to politicize this. I firmly

believe that.

Again, you can’t come in here….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. J. Horgan: You can’t come in here on a subject as tragic as this and then

wave fingers at people for half an hour. It does not accomplish

anything. It’s not the type of work. It’s not the type of….

Interjections.

Hon. J. Horgan: Head shaking, hon. Speaker.

When we need collaboration, most of all, is at this very, very

moment.

I will take the member’s question, and I’ll get back to this House

as quickly as I can.

M. de Jong: Look, I’m still trying to come to terms with the fact that on a

day and in the shadow of a report like this, speaking of 6,007

individuals and families, the minister’s first instinct was to try and

score political points by pointing to an individual that hasn’t been

here in over a decade.

I actually remember a few years ago sitting on that side of the

House and watching as the government of that day was confronted by

tragic circumstances and watching colleagues of mine being accused of

not caring and indifference and thinking how unfair that was. I resolved

that if the circumstances were reversed, I wouldn’t resort to that. I

think they do care. I think they do care, and they’re not

indifferent.

It’s not working. What the report says is what the government and

the minister are doing isn’t working, and people are paying the

price.

What we are suggesting, amongst other things, and have been

suggesting — the Leader of the Opposition in this House and the Leader

of the Third Party, collaboratively, have been suggesting for months and

months now — is to marshal the collective energy and talents of this

place, to work collaboratively and to find a solution that will reverse

the trend that we are seeing in this report.

The Premier says: “I’m prepared to think about that.” It’s the

same answer we got months ago, and as we’ve heard, every day of delay is

measured in lives lost.

In reviewing the report, in reviewing the findings, which are a

damning indictment of failure, the opposition asks — in fact, on behalf

of the thousands who are in jeopardy of dying, pleads — that, at a

minimum, tomorrow the Premier come into this House and say: “I accept

that all members of this House have a contribution to make. We will

mobilize the committee that is in place to effect that kind of

collaboration, and we will work together to save lives in the province

of British Columbia.”

The Premier can make that happen today, or he can make it happen

tomorrow. I hope he will.

[2:40 p.m.]

Hon. J. Horgan: I’ve known the member for Abbotsford West for a long, long time —

longer than either of us care to admit. I know the genuine effort he’s

making here, and I will commit today to this House to bring…. The Health

Committee has been constituted for this session of parliament. We will

put together terms of reference, and we’ll strike the committee and see

if the collaboration that is called for here actually materializes. I’m

hopeful that it will.

On a day like today, with war in Europe and with all of the

upheaval that British Columbians have been through over the past 2½

years — I know that every single member feels exactly the same way I do,

and exactly the same sentiment that the member for Abbotsford West just

put on this floor today — all of us are shaken. All of us are rattled

when we see 6,000 lives extinguished because of a toxic drug

supply.

It will take more than just safe supply. It will take more than

harm reduction. It will take more than treatment. It will take

enforcement so that we can eliminate the scourge of people in our

society that profit off putting people in boxes — young men and women

across this province. All of us feel the same sentiment here. All of us

want to work together. We’ll strike the committee. We’ll put in place

terms of reference. Let’s walk that walk, not just talk that

talk.

[End of question period.]

Motions Without Notice

MEMBERSHIP CHANGE TO

FINANCE

COMMITTEE

Hon. M. Farnworth: I seek leave to move a motion.

Leave granted.

Hon. M. Farnworth: By leave, I move:

[That Brenda Bailey , MLA substitute for Grace

Lore , MLA as a Member of the Select Standing Committee on Finance

and Government Services.]

Motion approved.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: I call Committee of Supply of the Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recovery and

Innovation.

In Committee A, I call the estimates for the Ministry of

Labour.

Just also to inform the House….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Please continue.

Hon. M. Farnworth: This is important.

When the Minister of Labour’s estimates are finished, in here we will be

doing bills. The estimates for Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation will move

into the Doug­las Fir Room.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF

JOBS, ECONOMIC RECOVERY

AND

INNOVATION

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Chandra

Herbert in the chair.

The committee met at 2:45 p.m.

The Chair: Members, I think we should go into recess while we wait for

the appropriate staff to arrive. So the committee will be in recess.

Thank you, Members.

The committee recessed from 2:45 p.m. to 2:50 p.m.

[S. Chandra in the chair.]

The Chair: All right, Members. We are here for the ministry estimates for

Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation.

On Vote 36: ministry operations, $110,426,000 .

L. Doerkson: I had a moment to have a brief chat with the minister, and I think

most of my focus today will be certainly with respect to subvote

“Regional development.” I do want to say I serve a couple of masters and

some of those are in the Cariboo-Chilcotin and others, of course, are in

rural B.C. So I do want to start there.

Honestly, that’s my first question. We have obviously referred to

this as regional development. That sort of phrase is somewhat gone from

FLNRORD, of course, and it’s moved over to you, and it is now called

regional development. I wondered if we could start right there and maybe

get an answer as to why the name has changed?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I want to thank the member for the question. I think, first off,

I’ll say that I appreciate the sentiment behind the question. I want to

highlight to the member that the rural piece is very important. The name

actually is Rural and Regional Development. You could see that reflected

in the budget, in the blue document. The parliamentary secretary that is

coming over to our ministry is also going to be the Parliamentary

Secretary for Rural and Regional Development.

L. Doerkson: I guess that’s a bit of my concern. Rural development has always

been focused, and that sort of pot of money and funds has been committed

to rural British Columbia for a number of years. My concern, of course,

is with respect to that now including the word “regional.” Will this pot

of money…? Will these funds be supporting other areas of British

Columbia outside rural B.C. and perhaps in urban centres?

[2:55 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: I think I’ll start with saying how excited I am to have this

division come and join our ministry. We’re only a few days in, but I’m

really excited about the opportunities.

The member will have, perhaps, seen the economic plan. There are

several new actions that I think benefit rural communities and

communities throughout British Columbia — the small business

diversification initiative, the industrial manufacturing initiative that

we’ve got and, of course, connectivity, which I know is a big, big thing

that comes up often. I’m sure the member hears about it as

well.

The work that we’ll be doing…. Because it’s new, we’re going to

be, obviously, engaging with communities to ensure that we can support

rural communities. But we’ve also heard from rural communities that

floods and fires and all these impacts that we see, don’t see

boundaries. So there’s a desire to focus on rural communities but make

sure that the regions are working together in the planning as

well.

That’s why the regional piece came in — because we heard from

communities saying: “Hey, we got to work together.” Of course, we have

the pieces we want to see, but we want to work collectively to move

issues forward. So that’s where the regional came from.

L. Doerkson: Perhaps I can ask that in a different way.

I can appreciate there needs to be work done together. I

appreciate that. But in the past, these funds have largely been

dedicated to rural B.C. I guess my question or, certainly, my fear or

concern is that that pot just got a little smaller for rural

B.C.

I guess my question is, maybe to be a little more specific: how

much of these funds will actually be designated to rural B.C.

specifically?

[3:00 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: The team just wanted me to read this into the record, which is:

the budget sub-vote is in the estimates as regional development, not

rural and regional development. But as I mentioned, the rural

communities remain very important. So I just wanted to clarify that

piece for you. The parliamentary secretary, obviously, will be the

parliamentary secretary for rural and regional economic…. Yeah. So

that’s what I’m referring to.

To the member’s other question, I would say that there will not be

any less focus on the rural with the supports than we had in the

previous year. In fact, my hope is that we are able to continue to do

more to support rural and regional communities both. But rural

communities are your particular focus. The 21 staff that we had on the

ground in rural communities will be remaining in those communities, so

the resources there are not going to change at all.

L. Doerkson: Thank you for that answer. I am so glad to hear that those staff

are going to remain in place. So services to rural B.C. are not going to

be less. Are you suggesting, then, that there won’t be funds from this

spent in urban B.C? I mean, this is basically the same amount of funding

that was, last year, dedicated to rural B.C.

I think what I’ve heard from the minister is that we we’re going

to keep all the staff, and we’re going to have the same amount of

support for rural British Columbia. I guess I just want to confirm,

then, that there’s going to be nothing spent in urban B.C.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Perhaps I’m not quite clear on how the member defines urban. I

think he said urban British Columbia. Maybe he can just give me more of

an understanding of what he’s thinking.

L. Doerkson: Perhaps I’ll define urban as anywhere in the city. So in other

words, rural B.C., of course, struggles with different challenges. I

guess my point is that this funding was in place before for rural

British Columbia, and I’m wondering if that funding is going to become

smaller.

[3:05 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: In just chatting with the team, I think the premise of the

member’s question is: are the dollars that are there going to be sent to

big metropolitan areas? The answer is no. Our intention is to continue

to do the work to support rural communities.

We do know, as I highlighted, that fires, floods, some of these

impacts that we’ve seen, cross all jurisdictions. So for us, it’s

important to make sure we plan and have the regional lens. But our

intention isn’t to spend more dollars from this pot of money for major

metropolitan areas.

L. Doerkson: Thank you, Minister, for the answer. I’m pleased to hear that. As

I’ve noted, and I don’t think it would be surprising to many of the

people in this room, there are some pretty significant challenges out

there.

The minister has mentioned now, I guess, for the second or third

time, wildfires and floods. I’d be curious to know what your ministry

would have to do with any of that. I’ve seen, obviously, large funding

in other ministries and other parts of the budget, but I certainly

didn’t recognize anything here. I’m just wondering if there

is.

[3:10 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: Well, the member will know, because he’s lived through some

challenging fires in his community, that when an incident like that

happens, it’s all hands on deck. What the team has done under EMBC’s

leadership — EMBC is the lead — is that if we have got boots on the

ground, our people have gone in to work with Community Futures, to work

with the local chambers to help to coordinate some supports. We have 21

people on the ground in communities. That is where we come in, but it’s

all under EMBC’s leadership.

L. Doerkson: I think I’m going to leave that for now and come back to that a

little bit later.

I want to talk a little bit about the structure of this subvote

specifically. I just want to read from the mandate letter. It suggests —

this is, of course, the Premier speaking — “I expect you to reach out to

elected members from all parties as you deliver on your mandate.

Further, you will build thoughtful and sustained relationships through

public and stakeholder engagement.” I’m just wondering if you could tell

me which parties you reached out to while building this plan.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Is the member referring to the StrongerBC economic

plan?

L. Doerkson: Yeah, with respect to…. Reaching across the floor, I think, is

what I read the mandate letter to indicate. I’m just wondering, with

respect to the budgeting, the jobs plan, all of the plan that you have

put together over the last months — I’m sure that it’s been a daunting

exercise; it’s a massive amount of money — have you consulted or reached

out across party lines to discuss that with anybody in this

House?

Hon. R. Kahlon: Thanks for the question. You know, I pride myself on being able to

work with everyone. Whether it was with grants, whether it was

businesses needing supports, finding out where to go and who to ask for

financial supports for specific instances, I have been working with

everyone. In fact, many of your colleagues have reached out on specific

files, and I’ve been able to chase them down.

I guess now there are two critics. The critic, the member from

Kamloops, has talked to me about issues he thinks are important through

our estimates exchanges. We’ve had conversations offline about important

initiatives, for his community in particular, and many members

have.

My door is open. Certainly, I put the offer to you now, because I

know that you come with good intentions, that if you think there’s

something important for rural development, I’m more than happy to meet

with you any time to talk about that.

L. Doerkson: I certainly thank you for that, and I thank you for the

opportunity. I would like that opportunity in the future to sort of

share some ideas across this floor. We’ve talked about that today a

little bit.

With respect to full-time employees — we’ve talked a little bit

about this — I just wanted to get a bit of the structure, under

specifically this subvote, as to regional and rural development. How

many full-time employees are there? Are there part-time employees?

Where, roughly, are they situated?

[3:15 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: We’ve got 21 regional staff. I can get the member some information

in writing, if he likes, but I can just give it to him as well now. We

have staff in Prince Rupert, Terrace, Vanderhoof, Fort St. John,

Quesnel, Williams Lake, Kamloops, Invermere, Kelowna, Vernon, Penticton,

Vancouver, Victoria, Nanaimo and Campbell River. That’s where we’ve got

staff on the ground. We’ve got 21 of them that are situated throughout

the province, and then we’ve got 18 staff that are here in

Victoria.

L. Doerkson: Thank you very much for that. It sounds like they’re certainly

spread throughout the province, which is fantastic.

I wonder if the minister could give me a bit of a breakdown,

specifically, about this subvote — where the funds might be used or how

they might be used.

[3:20 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: I want to thank the member for asking questions like this. He may

find that funny — I find it funny — but the team here hasn’t been asked

questions about the line items on the budget. They do a lot of work to

prepare for this, so I really appreciate you asking.

I can give you the numbers, which are: $2.1 million of that is

salary and benefits; $25 million is grants and program admin; and then

there is about 0.8, which is, like, rum and rations — some odds and

ends. The balance is about $27.9 million in operating costs, contracts

and IT, etc.

L. Doerkson: Thank you very much for that. Yeah, I saw the back pats over

there, so that’s great.

I just want to dig a little bit deeper on this then. When you talk

about grants and other items, of course, there’s that rural dividend

fund in there again. What I want to understand, I guess, a little bit

more clearly is how much of the funding left over after paying staff

would be dedicated to forestry workers that may be displaced by the

situation that is happening there?

Hon. R. Kahlon: None of this money that I have spoken about is for forest workers

or impacted forest workers. That would be separate money.

L. Doerkson: Thank you, Minister. I noted in a number of places that your

ministry was going to be helping with that initiative to create either

work or transition programs. I just want to confirm that. So none of

this money is for that. Are you able to identify where that funding may

be coming from, and, if so, how much is planned for that?

[3:25 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: In Budget 2022, we provide $185 million over three years to

support forest workers and communities affected by old-growth logging

deferrals. These forest workers supports and community supports programs

are joint initiatives between JERI, the Ministry of Advanced Education

and Skills Training, the Ministry of Labour and FLNRORD.

We don’t have the exact

definitions yet, but I can commit to the

member that once we have that, I can share with him how that will be

split amongst the ministries.

L. Doerkson: Thank you, Minister, for that.

I guess, in keeping with that same theme again, from…. I think

this is the mandate letter. “Work with the Minister of Labour to

establish a worker training and job opportunity office to maximize the

impact of our economic recovery plan for workers and communities during

COVID-19 and beyond, with a focus on retaining workers, supporting

resource communities facing job loss, developing higher-value goods,”

etc.

I guess I’m shocked that none of this money is for that. I’m

actually quite shocked. Can you define how this paragraph or this bullet

might look to British Columbians as we go forward, as far as what your

part of completing these tasks will look like?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I wasn’t quite clear on why the member was shocked. I thought I

said, and I’ll just say it again, that the $185 million that has been

allocated in the budget…. We have every expectation that we’re going to

be getting some of those dollars to do the important work that has been

highlighted.

It’s important work, whether it’s supporting manufacturing,

supporting the value-added sector or supporting communities in economic

transition, whether that’s climate related or technologically related.

We canvassed that at great length yesterday.

[J. Tegart in the chair.]

Maybe I didn’t make myself clear. That $185 million over three

years — we do expect to get some of that. When we’ve got that

information, I’m happy to share that with the member.

[3:30 p.m.]

The Chair: Member.

L. Doerkson: Thank you, Madam Chair. Nice to see you.

I appreciate that, and I certainly look forward to looking that

over and understanding where that money is coming from. But there’s $25

million here that I’m not certain…. The minister mentioned that it’s for

grant funding and that kind of thing. I guess what I’m trying to get at

is: what is this $25 million for?

I can appreciate that there might be money coming from another

ministry, but $25 million is going to be spent in this province in the

next year, and I can appreciate that, I think, $2.155 million of that

will be spent on staff. I’m just not sure what the rest of this

is.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Chair, I see what the member was asking. Sorry, there was a bit of

confusion. Just to clarify, on the $185 million, when we get the numbers

on how much we’re going to be getting, I’ll be sharing that with the

member. For the $25 million that the member is talking about, I can give

him examples of what that money has been used for in this previous

year.

The money was used for things like economic development strategies

for local communities. What’s really important is that for 21 people

that we have, the boots on the ground, they work with local communities

to figure out what the needs are in rural communities. From that, then

they can find ways to support economic development strategies. They have

supported local chambers in attracting and retaining local

businesses.

[3:35 p.m.]

They’ve worked with Indigenous communities on economic development

initiatives. It’s very broad, but it’s really important that we hear

from communities on where the needs are. That’s the work that has been

done with this fund in the previous year.

L. Doerkson: If I am hearing right, there isn’t a specific plan for this money,

then. Is there no specific plan for this money for the coming

year?

Hon. R. Kahlon: What I can commit to the member is we’re going to continue to

invest these dollars to address rural needs. We’re going to continue to

identify where the opportunities and the needs are, and continue to

invest the dollars where those needs are.

L. Doerkson: Thank you for that answer. I’m not trying to get you into a corner

here. I’m just trying to understand if there is a plan for the money or

isn’t. Again, I’m not trying to back you into a corner.

Is this funding, then, more of a responsive funding? I mean, is it

a fund that will be called upon if there are problems? The minister

referred to wildfires, floods, etc., earlier. If there is no plan, I’m

guessing that this is response money.

Hon. R. Kahlon: The money that we are talking about will be there to respond to

the needs of the community. I’ve had some meetings with leaders from

rural communities, who have said, “Thank God that you were able to

provide us those dollars,” because it was really helpful to do X, Y, Z.

I think that’s what the member was asking about. Yes, that’s what our

plan is.

L. Doerkson: That’s exactly what I was wondering. So we know that there’s not….

I mean, there is obviously a plan to spend the money if needed, if

required. It’s obviously money that will be used in response to

something.

I guess, then, my next question with respect to that fund is: what

would trigger a response to that? Would it be small business funding?

What would create a reason to access these funds?

[3:40 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: In the past, there have been application processes for people to

apply for those dollars. But the member highlighted my mandate letter.

The Premier’s asked me to engage with communities to ensure that the

dollars we’re spending are meeting their needs. I’ve already started

doing some engagement, but certainly I’m going to be, in the next coming

weeks, engaging with lots of local officials. Happy to hear from the

member as well. Then we’ll figure out the process for those

dollars.

L. Doerkson: That’s great to hear. So that engagement process is happening now.

We’ve already decided, or the ministry has already decided, on the

amount of money, so I guess, maybe…. I wonder how we arrived at that

number. How did $25 million…? How was that picked? If we don’t know the

obstacles that are before us and if we don’t know what the communities

require for help, how did we arrive at that number?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I just want to highlight that I’ll be doing the engagement, but

the parliamentary secretary will also be doing a lot of that engagement.

This allocation of money has been consistent for more than five years

for the ministry.

L. Doerkson: Thank you very much for that. I know that the funding has been

consistent, and I’m going to hold you to your promise about the rural

development piece.

Going back to that paragraph, I wonder. I know that perhaps it

sounds like the engagement hasn’t started quite yet, but maybe you could

confirm that, of course. And secondly, it specifically says “supporting

resource communities facing job loss.” I’m just wondering. We know that

that’s a serious part of our future. We’re starting to see it now in a

few communities.

I’m wondering if your ministry has any idea what that might look

like and what those supports might look like for communities. And

further, if that engagement has started at all with any of the

communities.

[3:45 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: On the engagement front, part of creating the StrongerBC economic

plan, we had 300 distinct engagements, so we had very extensive

engagement on that. We have a fairly good sense of some of the needs,

but certainly, in the coming weeks, there will be a lot of meetings that

the parliamentary secretary and I will be taking on.

The second question is broadly around the impacts of potential

forest deferrals. You know, I spent, previous to this role, some time as

a parliamentary secretary for FLNRO, so I spent lots of time in the

Interior in the communities that were impacted from pine beetle. I do

have a connection to the work that’s needed when communities are

impacted. It’s not easy. It’s very difficult. Certainly, I spent some

time in the member’s community, so we know that any incident that

happens or any closure that happens, the supporting workers are the

first and most important thing. So that work is going to

happen.

There are obviously the social impacts that come with that, and

then, of course, there are the economic pieces that come with that as

well. So our team right now…. We have two communities that we’re working

with already on that. One is Powell River, and the other one is

Vanderhoof. So when that need comes, of course we all work together to

make sure that we can support communities. Those two communities are

ones we’re working with right now.

L. Doerkson: Thank you, Minister.

Getting back to the $185 million fund that will be coming, I

guess, into your ministry, or certainly from another ministry, to the

people of British Columbia, I’m wondering first off: will you be

managing that, and will that be where the transitional funds come for

forestry workers? Will that also be business programs, etc.? I guess,

more than anything, I’m wondering if it will be this ministry that

manages that money.

[3:50 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: I highlighted earlier in the answer for the member that there are

four ministries that will be working together with that $185 million:

FLNRO, AEST, Labour and JERI. Again, I committed to the member that once

we know the dollars that are being allocated between them, I will share

that with the member.

We will be coordinating the efforts. We know that all the work is

going to require a good deal of coordination. We’ve seen that level of

coordination when we had to deal with some mills that were closed

because of the pine beetle. So that work will continue here.

L. Doerkson: Thank you, Minister.

I guess, while we’re here, we’re going to…. I’ll come back to some

of this in a little bit. The moment lends itself well to just ask about

a program that I’m sure you’re all familiar with. It was a one-time

program, and that’s CERIP, the community economic recovery

infrastructure…. I think that you did manage that fund.

I can tell you that the beloved Potato House in my community of

Williams Lake did receive some of that funding. I think that the

funding, in general terms, was pretty welcomed into the community. I

think it was $90 million or $100 million. There’s a lot of hurt out

there still. I can see that. Certainly, we have reached out to a number

of ministries.

My question is…. I’m well aware that this was a one-time fund, but

I wondered if it’s been considered at all for this year.

[3:55 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: The member is correct. There was $100 million, part of StrongerBC

— a stimulus fund through the pandemic. Of that, $20 million came to the

team that was doing this work. It was part of the COVID response, the

stimulus fund at that time. That was just that one-time

funding.

L. Doerkson: I knew all of that. I was asking if the ministry had considered

any other funding like that for the coming year, knowing that there is

still some COVID hurt out there. There are, certainly, groups that have

been unable to raise money.

Again, it’s not something that I want to spend a lot of time on. I

just wonder if the ministry had considered that at all, because it was

very successful for rural British Columbia. I’m certain that there were

all kinds of projects done in the cities as well. Certainly, it was a

big benefit for us in rural B.C.

[4:00 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: It’s great to hear that the member’s got good feedback on that

program, and that was it was popular and successful. I think the dollars

we have right now are the ones that I’ve highlighted. So it’s the money

that we’ve already talked about, and then the $185 million for impacted

workers and communities.

Again, when those numbers are available, I’ll certainly share that

with the member.

L. Doerkson: Great. Thank you very much — appreciate it. I am happy to

highlight, you know, things that have worked well, especially when it’s

money coming to our home ridings, of course.

I will leave that for now, and I wanted to move along to the

northern development fund special account. I guess, really, all I wanted

to know is what that is. It’s $500,000. If the minister could just

explain what that represents.

[4:05 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: The B.C.-Alcan Northern Development Fund was established in ’97. I

think the member wants to know the history. Okay. It was surrounding the

cancellation of the Kemano completion project. At that time, B.C. and

Alcan committed $7½ million each to a development fund.

Every year they take an allocation of that fund to use for things

like…. For example, last year they gave Kitimat Marine Rescue Society

$50,000 for a new marine vehicle. So they use the funds for what they

deem is needed in the community.

L. Doerkson: Is that just for the northwest corner of the province? And that

funding will obviously continue through. Who decides what the funding

will be spent on? Is that your ministry or…?

Hon. R. Kahlon: The Nechako-Kitamaat Development Fund Society make decisions

themselves on where they want to spend the money. They’ve got one

representative from government. There are 11 members, total, and one

representative from government who’s part of the 11.

L. Doerkson: I don’t want to spend a whole bunch of time here, so maybe I’ll

try to combine a couple of questions.

It sounds great. So I guess my curiosity is…. Has this been

considered elsewhere? Is there an application process? I mean, it sounds

like a fund that could go very well in Cariboo-Chilcotin, for instance —

not to mention any ridings, but I think it would certainly be

welcomed.

I appreciate it has been a long time in northwest B.C. But is

there an application process, and has it been considered for other

ridings?

[4:10 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: The B.C.-Alcan Northern Development Fund was created because of

Kemano going down. It was an agreement from Kemano and others. I’ll

share with the member that we do have other trusts. We have the Island

Coastal Economic Trust; the Northern Development Initiative Trust, which

actually covers the member’s community as well; and then the economic

trust southern initiatives, which are similar. They all have application

processes to support community initiatives.

L. Doerkson: Thank you, Minister. I am definitely aware of those trusts, and we

will move on from there. I was going to ask a couple of questions about

that, because you brought it up, but we’ll leave that alone for

now.

What is the rural resident attraction pilot listed in your service

plan? I’ll just leave it at that, if I could get an explanation for what

it is.

[4:15 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: It was part of the StrongerBC program. It focused on five regional

projects, so I’ll give the member the communities: Canal Flats, Fort St.

James, north Island, Prince Rupert and Kaslo. The program was to attract

and retain residents in the communities, in the regions. The work is

ongoing right now.

L. Doerkson: Maybe just by a nod, did you say the work is ongoing

now?

Okay. It’s to attract residents. I mean is this…? I thought that

it was something new. Has it been successful? Is it working, and what

are the metrics that you would use to judge that program?

Hon. R. Kahlon: Yeah, the team actually just had meetings last week with the

teams. The work hasn’t been completed yet, but I’ll share with the

member a little bit around what each community is doing.

For example, the village of Canal Flats has a community goal of

reaching a permanent population of 1,000 by 2026. As part of the plan,

they set out their community goal, and then they identify what their key

industries are.

[4:20 p.m.]

Then they make a list of current projects that they want to take

on in order to reach their goal. Current projects: resident attraction,

marketing, placemaking, new resident investor information materials,

first point of contact for lead development.

Some of the success they’ve had is…. They just finished their

place-making project, the Shore to Shore pathway. They have a

revitalization tax incentive bylaw that they came up with and they’ve

passed.

Each community has their own. Would the member like me to go

through each of them for him? Quickly, okay. I’ll go through

quickly.

Fort St. James has a current population of 1,386. Their community

goal is diversifying their economy following the sale of their local

sawmill. They have identified for current projects to develop marketing

materials, to update local brochures and print media, to work on

revisioning Cottonwood park, the waterfront area — again, signage and

way finding, a master plan and an RFP process. They’ve completed their

recreation and leisure amenities guidebook, and they’ve just completed a

survey around Cottonwood park, the waterfront area in the community.

They just did that.

On Vancouver Island north, they have identified for themselves…. I

don’t see the goal here, but I can share with you that they’ve got a

home-based knowledge worker strategy, a partnership with Mount

Waddington Health Network and Island Health for sector attraction,

workshops for economic developers on First Nations initiatives,

developing a second labour market survey.

Is that good? Okay. Yeah. Each community has got their own targets

and goals, and this is about helping them meet those goals.

L. Doerkson: Thank you for the abbreviated explanation of what’s

happening.

I guess what threw me was the word “pilot.” That suggested to me

that this was a new program, but it sounds like there is much work

happening right now. It sounds like small communities in our province

are reaching out to the ministry for help, at least to grow their

communities. I’m not certain if there are other aspects to that with

respect to doctors, nurses — you know, filling some of those very

important spots throughout rural B.C.

I guess, noting that this program is well underway…. How much was

dedicated to it last year, and how much will be dedicated to it in the

coming year?

Hon. R. Kahlon: We had allocated $1 million to this. So far, as I’ve shared, the

work is ongoing. We’re going to continue to assess the goals that

communities have set to see how they’re progressing and then make

decisions from there.

L. Doerkson: Just one quick question. It sounds like $1 million in the coming

year. No. Sorry. It was $1 million last year.

Is there anything specifically allocated to this? How can other

communities in British Columbia reach out to be a part of this

program?

[4:25 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: The communities that have gone through were identified by the

staff that are working in communities. They looked at a whole host of

things. Readiness. They looked at whether a community had an attraction

strategy, regional distribution — and, in the case of Canal Flats, a

community that was in transition. That’s how they were

identified.

We’re going to go through the work that we’re doing now and just

assess whether the program is successful. Then we’re going to have to

assess whether and how we would broaden that, if there are needs. We’re

first going to focus on the ones that we’ve identified to see how that

progresses.

If I can request — if the member is okay, if the Chair is okay — a

short recess for a couple of minutes so that we could….

The Chair: We’ll be in recess for five minutes.

The committee recessed from 4:27 p.m. to 4:32 p.m.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

The Chair: We are here with the Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recovery and

Innovation.

L. Doerkson: Mr. Chair, just before you arrived, we were talking a little bit

about what the rural resident attraction pilot is. I understand that

there are a few. I just want to spend a couple more minutes on this,

because I think this could be really vital to a number of

communities.

I’m just wondering about the parameters of the program. You

mentioned that you identified, or staff identified, those communities

that might be in need. I guess what I’m curious most about is how those

communities got noticed. Maybe to save a little bit of time, I wondered

how communities in the future could be noticed.

I think that there are many applications for something like this.

I mean, I think that the minister referred to a number of communities

that are trying to grow their population, or perhaps even recover after

a mill closure or something like that. But as I touched on, a little

bit, before the break, there are certainly — I don’t think I’m bringing

anything shocking to the chamber — shortages for doctors.

Would this fund be in a position to help a community like mine to

go forth in securing doctors or nurses? Would you help with those kinds

of recruiting items under this particular pilot?

[4:35 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: The communities that were chosen were — because it was a pandemic

response — the communities that were ready to go, which were identified

by the teams on the ground. Now, that being said, as we go and engage

with community, we’re going to do, starting very soon…. Some of that has

already started.

We may identify more communities that have that as their need — as

something they identify that’s important for their economic development.

The member may also have communities that he can think of that are well

suited for this. I’m happy to hear his thoughts. As well, I’m sure we’ll

be hearing from communities as we go about our engagement.

L. Doerkson: Yeah, we can do that after these meetings are over.

I want to turn now, a little bit, to job creation, if that’s all

right by the minister and the Chair. I want to talk about specific

initiatives that may be going on in the Cariboo-Chilcotin right now. But

also, in light of time, I would like to hear, in general terms, what may

be going on in rural B.C.

There’s obviously a lot happening throughout the province right

now. The minister, I think — I’m not certain he could be quoted on it —

touched on if the situation develops in our forests. I think you

suggested that you had been a parliamentary secretary there. I can

assure you that certainly in Cariboo-Chilcotin, it is having an effect

now, and I’ll get into that a little bit more.

I do know that the AAC was cut in the Okanagan by around 20

percent. I don’t think I’m wrong on that. I guess what I’m wondering is:

what specific initiatives is your ministry undertaking to create new

jobs, specifically in the Cariboo-Chilcotin, but also in general terms,

in rural British Columbia?

The Chair: If I just might…. I didn’t want to intervene; you’re having

such a cooperative conversation. But of course, just as a general

reminder, we don’t say “you,” because that would refer to me.

Instead, we would say “to the member” or “to the minister.” But

thank you for keeping it collaborative.

[4:40 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: The teams we have — what they do is work with local communities on

their economic development plans. So they support initiatives in

communities.

The member asked about the Cariboo-Chilcotin in particular. I know

he’s pleased to see, because it’s the Cariboo and Prince George area….

There are a few areas that are shining lights for the rest of the

province. The Cariboo area is just shy of 108 percent to pre-pandemic

employment levels — so 8 percent higher employment now than prior to the

pandemic, which is quite remarkable. Obviously, there are a whole host

of investments, whether it’s connectivity, whether it’s infrastructure

investments for rural communities. Also critically important is

training.

We can go into more details, and obviously, some of those pieces

are within different ministries. But the team that we have, the folks

that are working on the ground, work with communities on their economic

development plans. They support the communities in their plans as we go

forward.

I’m happy to go into more detail if the member chooses.

L. Doerkson: I am very happy to hear that number for Cariboo-Chilcotin. I guess

in areas where we have seen job loss…. You mentioned some of them with

respect to the last program that we were talking about. I’m going to get

into this a little bit more with respect to the self-employed people of

the province, but are there any specific initiatives, in those

communities that have seen job loss, that your ministry is leading the

charge on with respect to job creation? If so, what kinds of jobs are

those, and what effort is being made on behalf of your

ministry?

[4:45 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: So I’ll answer the member’s question, but yesterday I committed to

the hon. member from Kamloops that I would get him some information and

read it into the record, so I’m just going to do that now for him. It

was around the funding for the Michael Smith and Genome B.C.

A $195 million investment to further develop B.C.’s growing life

science sector, which was referenced in Budget 2022, is grant funding

for Michael Smith research B.C. and Genome B.C. It is being funded

through the 2021-2022 appropriation and was announced on budget day,

February 22, 2022. This is a new allocation and was not announced in

Budget 2021. For more information, he can raise that with the Ministry

of Finance. It was new money. We were just going back and forth, and I

committed that I would read that into the record for him.

I’ll answer this question for you as well, Member. I think that

first, it’s important for me to share that the team we have on the

ground focuses on working with communities on their economic plans,

whether that’s helping them create an economic plan or whether that’s

supporting them if they have a specific initiative that they want to

advance. In some communities they don’t have economic development

officers, so they go in and kind of play that role to support

communities — not to become the economic development officer for the

community but to go in and help facilitate some of those

conversations.

[4:50 p.m.]

We also have within our ministry an investment branch that engaged

with international investors to try to find homes for investments to

happen here in British Columbia. So we work with them to identify what

kind of investment they want to make, and then we help them identify

potential communities that might be a good fit and that meet the

parameters of what they would like to see.

Because of the pandemic, there was a little bit less activity than

normal, but we saw significant investments — at a historic level. We’re

starting to see that pick up, where companies are saying: “Okay, we’re

looking at a potential site for investment. Where can we do that?” So we

have a team that does that work.

The bigger challenge that we’re hearing from employers right now

is finding people. So the jobs are there, but it’s finding the people to

fill the jobs. Whether that’s more investments in child care to bring

the costs down so more people can enter the workforce to take those job,

whether that’s the training and re-skilling so that people can quickly

get the micro-credentials they need to take those employment

opportunities….

Then it’s also through net migration, interprovincial migration

from other provinces…. We saw, in the first three-quarters of last year,

that 30,000 people moved to British Columbia. It’s also immigration from

outside of Canada.

Those are some of the pillars we’re using to help to address the

labour challenges.

L. Doerkson: Thank you for that. I guess I have more questions because of that

answer. This is something that I’m very worried about. I’m going to try

to draw a little bit of a picture for all of you.

In my riding, for instance, I have advocated on behalf of log home

builders. Those log home builders — we have been able to get a meeting

with the minister, or not with the minister, but certainly with staff,

to express their concern. The concern is that because of…. The minister

referred earlier to “if it happens” or “when it happens.” I can’t stress

this enough: the log home builders of my riding are unable to secure

logs to build homes that they have already sold.

That’s not just in my riding. I have spoken with many others.

Certainly, the Woodlot Federation shares similar concerns. They’re very

worried about what the old growth strategy is going to be and the effect

that that is going to have on their businesses.

While we’re not hearing, necessarily, the talk about that, in many

places throughout the plan, the ministry refers to creating jobs.

Specifically, in the service plan, it says: “Create short-term

employment.” This is what I meant by moving along to some of our

contractors.

“Create short-term employment opportunities for contractors and

their employees to mitigate the job losses.” Now, it might be great to

say that the Cariboo-Chilcotin is at 108 percent, but this is happening.

I know it to be happening. I’ve spoken about it in budget speeches and

throne speeches, and it’s been acknowledged by the ministry. So we are

going to lose these jobs.

I guess there are two sides to that coin, of course. You’ve got a

very skilled labour force. I’m not sure, but I certainly couldn’t go

build a log house. So you’ve got a very skilled labour force, one that

we all seem pretty committed to bolstering. We have talked about

value-added in many places throughout the jobs plan and throughout

FLNRORD estimates. We’ve talked about it repeatedly, yet this is a

sector that stands to be hurt quite badly by what’s happening in the

forest. In fact, as I said, it’s going on right now.

Specifically, what will happen for these people? The ministry says

it will create short-term employment opportunities. Well, what are those

opportunities? And for both, right? The difference between me going to

work at a log home facility is that I’m carrying a $12 lunch pail to

work, maybe a chainsaw. But for the company owner, obviously there’s

significant risk that they’ve taken, significant investment, not only in

land and other things, but they’ve got a payroll to keep. They’ve got

insurance to keep up, etc.

[4:55 p.m.]

I guess that what I’m looking for is some sort of specific example

of what those employment opportunities look like for both sides — the

people that are going to lose their jobs building those homes, and the

owner of the company, who may have to transition to something

else.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I’ve met with log home companies in the member’s riding. That was

the last round. I know how challenging access to fibre can be. I’m sure

the member’s going to canvass this question at length with the Minister

of FLNRO.

[5:00 p.m.]

What I’ll say is that we have $185 million, as I’ve already shared

with the member, allocated. Once we have information on what dollars go

to what ministry, I’ll share that with the member.

I’ll give him some examples of, in the past, what we’ve done with

dollars for supporting communities in transition — especially, as the

member mentioned, short-term employment. We’ve put out contracts,

whether it’s forest service roads or whether it’s working on parks,

trails and other projects that need to happen.

Now, some companies may be able to take that up, but for some

companies, that might not be a fit. We’ll have to see what those

challenges are and address them. That’s something that our team will do.

That’s what our team has done in the past. The folks that are on the

ground will work with those that are impacted and work to find

solutions.

L. Doerkson: Yeah, I will canvass it with the Forests Ministry, of course. I

think that this is coming sooner rather than later. Surely, it could be

appreciated that it’s frustrating to hear that that is not kind of

underway already. I can appreciate that there are potential

opportunities all over the province to build roads — to do this, to do

that. Certainly, I hope that the ministry is ready to respond very

quickly.

Now, I know that there’s $185 million. We’ve determined today that

the $25 million really is a responsive fund, because it doesn’t have a

specific plan around that funding. I just really hope that the ministry

is in a position to respond very quickly, because I really feel as

though this is happening as we speak. I know that some of the numbers

look quite good for employment in different sectors. I certainly would

concede that point and can appreciate it. But I get a genuine sense that

that has the ability to change like that, so I’m very, very worried

about that.

I want to talk a little bit about LNG. I only have a few more

moments left. There were a number of comments made this past week with

respect to LNG, and I’d like to read a couple of them into the record

right now.

These, of course, came from the Parliamentary Secretary for Rural

and Regional Development. He said: “If we want forward-looking and

effective economic independence for First Nations, if we want good jobs

for our children’s children in a world that is safe and secure, then all

indicators are that future LNG expansion isn’t the answer.”

The second quote was made by the member, suggesting: “We should be

talking about what the people of Kitimat or Lytton or Princeton or

Okanagan Falls want to see their economy and their culture and their

community look like in ten years or 20 years and be working towards that

together. The long-term forecasts from industry that I see for future

LNG development don’t look particularly rosy.”

The first question I have on this is: does the Minister of Jobs

endorse the statement of his parliamentary secretary that LNG expansion

isn’t the answer?

Hon. R. Kahlon: To start with, I think it’s important to note that, just like

everybody in my community doesn’t have the same opinion, just like

people in the member’s community don’t have the same opinion, we also

have First Nations in British Columbia that have different opinions,

whether that’s for LNG, for mines or for whatever the economic

development opportunity is. So I think it’s important to note that

there’s not one voice — that every community has the right to decide

what they would like to see for themselves in their

community.

That would be my response — that there are a lot of different

opinions, and we’ll leave it to nations to decide and speak for

themselves. Certainly, I won’t be speaking for nations.

[5:05 p.m.]

I will say that there’s a significant investment underway. Work is

underway right now. The future of LNG is a discussion that’s happening

all over the world. I know the member for Skeena raised the issue of

Germany. Germany is looking at LNG as a potential transition fuel for

them, but they’re also investing heavily in innovation to move beyond

natural gas.

I think that’s going to be important for the world as we

transition. Natural gas plays a role in that transition, but it’s going

to be vitally important that we invest heavily in the innovation that

will get us past fossil fuels. I think every jurisdiction in the world

understands the importance of that.

L. Doerkson: With respect, of course, I can appreciate the comments. Certainly,

there are many opinions out there, but most people of British Columbia

are not parliamentary secretaries or ministers.

In this case, this was a parliamentary secretary, and the question

was: do you endorse the statement? That’s a simple question.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I appreciate that the member is reading a short clip of the entire

statement. I haven’t had a chance to read the entirety of the comments,

but I will say that my parliamentary secretary is an excellent

ambassador of his community. He engages people regularly. There are a

lot of different views on natural resource development in every

community, and people have the right to speak about what they hear in

their communities, just like the member does.

When it comes to forestry, the member from Prince George talks

about decimating the forests and what impacts that has. I think it’s

fair to say that his views may not be the same as of every member of the

opposition. We still respect the view, because his job is to represent

his community. My parliamentary secretary brings perspectives that he

hears from his community.

As a minister, I’ve given you an answer, which is that natural gas

plays an important role in the transition of the energy in the world.

But we know — we all know — that we need to invest heavily in that

transition, and we need to get to a state where we’re not reliant on

fossil fuels.

The member knows, because his community has been dealing with

fires. The members from across this place know we’ve been dealing with

floods and heat domes. We must address climate change. Part of

addressing that is getting to a net-zero future. That’s what we’re

focused on.

L. Doerkson: Thank you, Minister, for the response.

Latvia’s ambassador has asked Canada to export more LNG. What role

are we going to play in that, and how will your ministry help with that

delivery?

Hon. R. Kahlon: Well, the member will know that his party talked about it a lot;

we actually did something. The question is: how much of a role will it

play in the world energy market? That we’ll know in the near

future.

Certainly, what we’re seeing in Russia, with Russia invading

Ukraine, is having some impacts on the markets. But I think this is an

opportunity for Europe to be more ambitious and be more bold to address

their future energy needs, to invest more heavily in innovation, to get

themselves off fossil fuels in the long run. They may need more natural

gas in the short term, but we’ll see.

These are a lot of decisions that have to be made by the private

sector. I am sure the member appreciates that these investments are not

going to be made by government. They’re going to be made by private

sector investments, and we look forward to hearing from any company that

thinks that that might be their opportunity.

L. Doerkson: Again, I can appreciate everything that the minister said, and I

can appreciate there are two roles there for LNG. There’s one on a world

scale, and there’s one, of course, in our province — a provincial

scale.

With respect to the role that it plays within our province, it

could be a massive opportunity for us, in a time when, as the minister

noted, the forest economy is struggling and there are things happening

there. I’m surprised that there isn’t more about it in the actual plan

going forward.

[5:10 p.m.]

I guess I’d like to hear, one more time, if the ministry will

offer up more support to that industry — which I think we could take

full advantage of in our province, to create income, revenue, taxes and

all kinds of things.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I think British Columbia has an incredible opportunity to help the

world, but we have an opportunity to help them in different ways. We

have the opportunity to help them with green hydrogen. We have the

ability to help the world in numerous ways, and, in fact, in the

economic plan, we made a significant investment in a centre of

excellence that will help us move that agenda forward.

I’m sure the member will be canvassing this at great lengths with

the Minister for Energy, Mines and Low-Carbon Solutions. But I think

I’ve give given the member the answer already.

L. Doerkson: Before I turn the questions over to the member from Saanich North

and the Islands, I’d like to just thank you all for your help today and

for the few hours that we’ve been able to spend together. Thank you very

much.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I also want to thank the member for his excellent questions. I

know my team really appreciated the fact that he actually asked a lot of

questions about each line of the budget.

Our team does a lot of work to prepare for estimates. It’s been my

experience that it’s not often…. A lot of the topics are not covered,

and the member did a great job. I commit to the member that I’ll follow

up with him on the specific piece that I committed to him on.

A. Olsen: Thank you for this opportunity to canvass the Minister of Jobs,

Economic Recovery and Innovation. I’m not going to be going into too

much detail on each line item, but I do want to, I think, have a bit of

a conversation. This is also an opportunity to talk about the

philosophical perspective that the minister takes to this important role

in terms of jobs and economic recovery.

As we have faced disruption in our economy, I think to great

detail, it’s important for us to understand. My first question to the

minister is a question that I have asked other ministers. I think it’s a

good place to start. In question period a couple weeks back, I asked a

question of the Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation

about the actions in the draft action plan that was tabled last summer.

Of course, there’s going to be an action plan that’s not got “draft”

written on it. It will be the finalized one coming soon.

I asked where the actions were going to be funded from, and he

suggested that it was out of each ministry’s core budget. I believe that

this is actually a positive step forward — that reconciliation needs to

be a core focus of each ministry. Perhaps I’ll just give the minister an

opportunity to highlight what steps he’s taking to ensure that

reconciliation does remain a priority within his ministry.

[5:15 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: It’s nice to see the member. I appreciate his question. We’re

wearing similar ties, I just noticed, as well. Different colours, but we

have a similar taste, I guess.

I want to thank him for his question. It is really important to

me, this question. When I first got elected, the first task that the

Premier assigned to me was to work to re-establish a human rights

commission here in British Columbia. That process opened my eyes in a

way…. I saw things that perhaps I never saw before.

What I’ve learned in this role is that we’re always learning, and

when it comes to First Nations and Indigenous communities, I just love

the opportunity to continue to learn and grow.

The member’s question was: how does that play a role? We’ve

already started to do some work, because we know — the member and I

would agree — that the pandemic hasn’t created inequities in our

society; it’s merely exposed them. We know that the saying that “We’re

all in the same storm, but we’re all in different boats” is a fair

reflection of the pandemic. We saw a disproportionate impact on

employment with women, with Indigenous communities, with Black

communities.

It was already a priority for us in the economic recovery, whether

that was grants or investments, but some of the work that we’ve been

doing…. My Parliamentary Secretary for Technology was engaging closely

with the First Nations Tech Council on how we ensure that in the tech

sector that’s growing so fast here in British Columbia, we ensure that

Indigenous communities, First Nations people, get an opportunity to get

good employment opportunities in the tech sector, to start their own

companies.

We did a very extensive engagement. We launched what we called an

innovator skills initiative program, which supports companies to hire

people who are underrepresented in the tech sector, gives them their

first employment opportunity in tech.

With that employment opportunity, what we did was we worked with

the First Nations Tech Council…. What happens too often is that when

these programs are created, we require the participants to have

accreditation from post-secondary education or our systems of education.

What we did is we changed the program to ensure that the First Nations

Tech Council’s accreditation program was an accepted use so that

everybody that came through their program now had the opportunity to get

their first job in tech. So we streamlined that and removed barriers.

That’s just one example.

One of the other examples that I’m very proud of with this

economic plan is that when we look at metrics and we assess how the

economy is working for British Columbians, we bring our own lens and our

own perspective to the metrics. But that isn’t the metrics that

Indigenous communities, that First Nations communities, want to use when

they assess how their economy is doing.

What we’re working on right now is creating a brand-new metric,

co-developing it with First Nations, using more of a wellness model.

We’ve heard clearly from First Nations leaders that they want to help

design how they assess whether the economy is working for their

communities or not. They want it to be more holistic and not just using

the traditional GDP metrics that we use. That’s an exciting initiative

that we’re taking on right now with First Nations.

There will be some initiatives that will come in the action plan

that will be directly connected to our ministry. But what the economic

plan talks about, which is a different frame than what’s traditionally

been used…. We’re going in a different path, which is that in order for

the economy to be successful, we need to ensure that we have no

separation from what was traditionally seen as economic and

traditionally seen as social. The two are interlinked.

When you have investments in child care, when you have investments

in housing, when you have investments in skills training and health

care, that helps move the economy forward in a good way. Indigenous

communities have been telling us that for a long time.

Another initiative we talk about is a circular economy. Indigenous

communities have been doing that for a long time. We’re actually using

this opportunity to learn, when we create circular economy

strategies.

[5:20 p.m.]

These are just some examples, but we can go into more detail as

the member likes.

A. Olsen: True to form, the minister answered all five of my questions with

one answer. So I’ll just take…. No, I’m just kidding. I can rustle up a

few more here for you, Minister. I do appreciate it.

The minister did acknowledge 4.31 of the draft action plan, which

is the metrics piece. I think that maybe the only thing that I would

still have remaining, left over from the minister’s first answer, is

kind of a timeline on what that looks like. I recognize that working

with other partners, it’s not just the minister’s timeline. It’s going

to be incumbent upon the collective work. That would be the last

remaining piece on 4.31.

But 4.32 is to “prioritize and increase the number of placements

for Indigenous peoples and other groups currently underrepresented in

B.C.’s technology sector.” One of the areas that Indigenous people are

very underrepresented is in here, not just in these seats but within

government. Has there been any attention paid to increasing the number

of Indigenous people working within ministries, working within the

different areas within the provincial government? What does that look

like?

Hon. R. Kahlon: Obviously, diversity and inclusion are very important to

government to ensure that we have — as the member rightfully highlighted

— greater representation amongst decision-makers so that we can ensure

that that lens is brought to the work we do. It’s important. The

Ministry of Finance is leading that, so I suggest that the member take

that question to the Ministry of Finance, and they’ll be able to go more

through the diversity and inclusion strategy.

[5:25 p.m.]

I’ll share that when I became minister, one of the first things I

asked was…. Every time a labour market report comes out, every month, we

now have, in the release, a statement about how the labour market is

impacting BIPOC communities. I purposefully asked for that. The media

also puts particular attention on how it’s not just numbers but how

certain communities are impacted differently in those job